Patrick,

3,000 uniques in a single day doesn’t validate an idea, let alone a business model. The influx of visitors you had is equivalent to the traffic any blog receives when one of its post hits the HN front page. Yet, none of them is complaining about not having gotten a lucrative book deal.

That being said, the idea of a torrent of videos is interesting. I’m much less convinced about its implementation. Not to sound rude, but a bunch of links on a wiki, that's it?

Maybe you could look at XSPF? It’s a shareable playlist format. See http://www.xspf.org/quickstart/ for more info. Since you are sharing links to videos, distributing them into a standard format could be a good idea for instance.

Or hook it to the YouTube API, to provide more info about each video. And most of the time, it takes a while before things get off the ground, so be patient and keep working hard on it.

Good luck.

No offense, but unless you're working 3 jobs to cover food and rent, you can work hard on an idea without seed money.

Stop watching TV (seriously, unplug it and put it in a closet). Stop playing video games (same deal). Stop going out barhopping. Devote your evenings and lunch breaks to working on your idea. You have plenty of time that you're not utilizing. You'll find that most startup founders - especially new entrepreneurs without a previous "win" - don't start by getting seed money thrown at them for an idea. They toil in every spare moment they have to produce a product that is worth investing in.

pg says "Running a start-up is like being punched in the face repeatedly" and it's true. You get to bust your ass 24/7, bend over backwards, wear sixteen hats at any given time, and learn at least 3 new major skill sets for no promise of reward, and a better-than-even chance of failure. If you're not willing to give it all you've got, then honestly, entrepreneurship probably isn't for you.

I don't watch tv, don't play video games, nor do I drink or go "barhopping".

To paraphrase paul graham (yet again), you can't realistically run a start-up and work a day job. If you do, then you're not really running a start-up. And if you don't work a day-job, then eventually you're likely to run out of money until the start-up gets profitable.

It doesn't have to be TV or video games. What do you do in the evenings? What fills the space between "clock out of work" and "go to sleep"? What do you do in the morning before you wake up and go to work? Just nearly everyone (three-job single mothers excepted) has a lot of time that they don't utilize. My point is that you can grow your product and business by making use of that time.

pg's right - you probably can't successfully run a full-tilt startup AND work a full time job. You don't have a full-tilt startup yet. You have an idea, and it's a lot of blood, sweat, and bleary-eyed mornings to get to the point where you'll need to put 100% of your time into it. "pg said I have to have seed funding first" is a pretty lame-ass excuse for why you can't work on your product.

If you think the only two states you can be in are "Working at a desk job" and "Being given a bunch of seed money to quit your desk job", you're misunderstanding the whole process, and cutting yourself way short.

I'd just stop if I were you. Dismissing every helpful piece of advice out of hand makes you seem like a very unreasonable person.

Good luck with your startup. I hope everything works out for the best.

Sorry if I sounds rude but have you ever tried to get a job in this market? To get a job, or seed capital, you need to work. A lot.

It's a full-time job itself to get a job. Call people. Start blogging and be active in forums like HN so people see how smart you are. Search every little possible job you ever can get. If you're not famous noone will ever GIVE you a job. It's something you need to work for.

If you don't have neither a job neither seed capital for your startup, you have some serious work to do. Search 5 or 10 jobs a day minimum, every single day. Call every angel in the Valley and see if they are interested in meeting you. Go to free parties and events to meet more interesting people. Ask your existing network for tips, help and recommendations. A comment on your own site was a start but don't think it solves your problem. Hard work do.

Be awesome. Work hard. Don't give up.

That's not really true. I am doing consulting to support me, my wife & and my 3 years child for 4h a day and the rest time is for my startup. So yeah, it's really possible, just you have to be very committed to it.

dont stop. dont make excuses. don't doubt yourself. They are all a waste of time. Focus on the end goal and methodology for getting there. If you really want this, move in with housemates or figure out what you need to to save a little so that you can self fund for a while. Also figure out some reasonable numbers as to why you can make money doing your startup and how long you think it will take to pull it off. Double those numbers. Otherwise, you will need to be cannonball in the chest convincing to any investor worth pulling in to fund your idea. Find ways to check your gut instinct with numbers. Understand the inputs to the numbers and understand the trends in the numbers. Own the pain, own the glory.

Remember that the best way to get money is to not need it. Investors aren't interested in "helping you out"; they're interested in making money, and broadcasting "we were rejected from YC and we're desperate for money" isn't a very good way to convince potential investors that you can make them rich(er).

Maybe your project just isn't interesting enough, or has little commercial potential.

Listen Patrick, maybe you're upset that you were rejected and that's why your lashing out. I don't know. I was rejected from YC last summer; in hindsight, the idea we had was garbage and we deluded ourselves into buying our own hype.

You've bought into your own hype. I've been to your site, I have no idea what it does or why its useful. It looks like a bunch of wikipedia scraped articles thrown together. It doesn't solve any problems or make life easier or fun for anyone.

Don't try to cite examples like Twitter or Youtube, they are freak chances and you CANNOT simply replicate patterns to success. So humbly, and as politely as I can say, I suggest you wake up and stop bullshitting yourself. Stop whining, step away from the computer, and either change your project or kill it.

Most of us here are entrepreneurs, we know what it`s like to have a rough patch better than most people. We have all endured weeks, or months with little income. My best suggestion would be to start cold calling, find someone who needs some work done that you can do. I can however guarantee that they won't come to you looking to spend their money, you need to give them a damn good reason to.

Your front page says you plan to sell the domain to the Wikimedia guys at the earliest opportunity and that your grand plan is to have full length videos all over Wikipedia. Wikipedia publishes images/etc that they have the verifiable right to include. I really can't imagine any circumstances other than vandalism where going to Arnie's page = sit back and watch the Terminator movies. So that's the first obvious problem.

The second is this. Lists of videos are a Google search. On any topic, and up to date within minutes. If I want to maintain my own list then I can make a playlist or use Delicious or browser bookmarks or StumbleUpon or dozens of other services.

You need a much, much, much stronger idea, a calmer approach and a much better measuring stick than 3k visitors from HN.

Ok Patrick, here goes. I do not know your entire situation and i would like to start off by saying I am no "expert" in the field of UI or UX, but I can tell you that your site has some usability issues that you said you were going to address which is a good thing, but you need to do that sooner rather than later.

As someone who has been down this road (and yes I was turned down by Ycombinator tuesday too) I know that hardly anyone succeeds the first time they try something. The idea itself may succeed in the long run, but the implementation must change for it to work. You NEED to know that.

If you are dead set on your ideas working as is you will probably never have them actually work.

Keep in mind that everyone feels that their idea is wonderful and it will succeed, I believed that so much to the point that I took jobs selling cars on the weekends and working at geeksquad at night just to pay my bills while trying to make it. Ultimately I did so, but I would argue it was the tenacity I had that made my success a reality (I was also very lucky like most entrepreneurs). If you are not willing to do anything and everything it takes to succeed including eating cans of soup 1/2 can at a time in order to stretch meals out for several days and sleeping on your bedroom floor because you sold your bed on craigslist to pay your server bills chances are you are not the kind of entrepreneur anyone is interested in investing in.

Listen to some of the stories of the guys who made it but just barely. My recent favorite is Brian Chesky who is one of the founders of AirBnB ... truly a teriffic story where they believed in their idea enough to sell CEREAL to make a software company stay alive.

That my friend is wanting it and THAT is the kind of spirit and tenacity that the "deep pockets" in SV are looking for.

It may be harsh, but here's some honest feedback: I don't see the value of WikiTorrents. (That probably doesn't mean anything, as I wouldn't have considered Twitter to be a huge winner either, but it is a data point for you nonetheless.) The name is non-intuitive, as it doesn't have much to do with torrents - or wikis in the traditional sense. Manually compiled/user-submitted lists of videos seems to be easily duplicable, meaning there is little competitive advantage.

isn't it easy to replicate?

I stopped reading through the comments and went to your site. Two things:

1. You're being abrasive, defensive and confrontational in your comment responses. This is partly why you're getting downvoted and you're not being taken seriously. It's difficult to take someone seriously when the help being given (in some cases from people who've done a lot more than you have) is being flung back in their face.

2. Nobody knows whether your idea would work or not, but your execution needs a lot of work. Have you researched the market? What's the market for a list of downloadable videos? How will you monetise? What separates you from other torrent or video list sites? How will you stop the MPAA from shutting you down? Why is it that when I go to the front page I get a blog and not the top videos? Why should I stump up money to support this?

Now for number 2, instead of being defensive (and I can tell you're angry about your YC rejection, but it's not all of us that are trying to help you that rejected you) look to answer those questions. You need to work out not just if this is viable but how viable this is and what type of return an investor should expect based on investing X (where X is a range of different amounts of cash that you need) and how that money will be spent.

You have what appears to be an MVP, I'd suggest you work on pitching for investment in order to grow traffic and improve usability and organic SEO.

You need to go out and find investors, they're not going to come to you. Be pushy, be tenacious, ring everyone up in the valley if you have to. Someone will invest in your idea if it has legs. You just have to work on putting your idea into a structure that sells well to an investor.

Ah yes, the "wtf??" reaction that happens a few days after a yc rejection. Its one of the 5 stages of coping with a loss. You are now at "anger".

Did a quick google search for the term "lists of videos". This link came up second: http://superl8tive.com/

Seems similar to what you're going for, and they appear to have been around for a while.

Checked their compete.com stats to get a rough idea on their traffic, and it doesn't look good. From 1600 uniques about a year ago down to 467 a couple months ago.

And their execution is not that bad.

So given their traffic, similar idea, and length of existence, it doesn't give much confidence that this idea can have a large audience.

Not raining on your parade. Just want to offer this little bit of research and my take on it. I think you may want to push the idea even further given the non-success of this similar execution.

Upon visiting your site for the first time (I went straight to the link and cheated), I am entirely overwhelmed and confused. 10 minutes in and I've yet to discover exactly what it is your site aims to help me with.

Things that stand out:

Why is the front-page a list of blog posts written by you asking for funds? I can't think of a worse way to welcome users to your site. Not to mention I haven't a clue what I'm looking at..

A "we need money" page. Begging for money is hardly a way to get someone interested in funding your company. This page is highly redundant and the Paypal donation button is also extremely tacky.

An @gmaildotcom email doesn't exactly come off as being professional. It doesn't take more than a couple seconds to setup an email for your own domain and IMHO just looks much more professional.

The big sidebar links on the right. What are they? Popular links? Favorite links? I've still yet to figure that out.

Overall I'm having a hard time seeing exactly where all the hard work and effort towards this site is going. Not to be rude, but it's certainly not towards the design and usability of the site. The site itself is something I could throw up in a day with any decent CMS (drupal comes to mind immediately). It seems most of your effort has gone towards convincing yourself that you have something amazing on your hands and trying to convey that through... begging?

Upon visiting your twitter I was greeted with the message "http://wikitorrents.org/ for all your BitTorrent wiki needs." That really doesn't mean anything at all. Not to mention it looks like this site has been around for over a year now. I'd expect there to be at least some signs of growth at this point. Why would someone invest in a year old site that hasn't more than a few pages of content? Maybe I'm missing something here?

Just to contribute a data point:

We were lucky enough to be accepted to YC a couple batches ago. It took us about 2 months of constant pitching and investor wrangling to close our seed round after demo day.

It is great that the original post brought you some initial visibility. It is not clear to me that you have done much to proactively capitalize on that.

Well... that's what this particular thread is all about.

What exactly should I do "to proactively capitalize" my "initial visibility"?

For example...

I just looked up your LinkedIn profile and you have a contact that is connected to 5 entrepreneurs that I happen to also know who have raised seed funding. Have you tried reaching out to that person to get intros to those entrepreneurs (4 of which have raised money in the last 3-6 months)?

My personal belief is that a broad "anybody want to help" approach is better than a creepy "in your face" approach to a particular person. I would think that singling-out a particular person and harassing them would result in burning all sorts of bridges. That's just my particular belief.

Seriously, What other suggestions you got?

That particular belief was actually one of the most counter-productive ones I have come across. Not only will you never get a meeting with a business angel unless you actually reach out to anyone. If your own view of your business potential is that pitching it to someone would pretty much amount to harassing that person, then maybe your idea needs a little more work.

Bottom line is that neither job offers or angel financing will come to you as a result of you indicating that you need it in a comment on a web page. You need to talk to actual people (yes, to their faces) and tell them what's in it for them. It's not about them helping you, it's you offering them something valuable.

By the way, if your site has nothing to do with torrents, maybe the word torrent shouldn't be in the name? To not confuse people.

>But the initial comment sounded like I should stalk people, corner them, and in general be a jerk. I refuse to do that.

Thats a pretty big leap from my initial suggestion of asking one of your existing LinkedIn contacts to introduce you to one of their existing LinkedIn contacts that may be able to help you out.

You've got some good food for thought and advice from others throughout this thread. I'd suggest taking a time out, coming back and reading through the 30ish posts here with as objective an eye as possible.

Unfortunately, your belief in this regard is the exact opposite of what investors tend to suggest when asked how they can be reached. Investors want a genuine introduction from a single trusted source like a portfolio CEO or another investor that they have done deals with.

The good news is that entrepreneurs typically really like helping out other entrepreneurs with advice and connections when they can. But, entrepreneurs also tend to very, very busy running their startups. So, leaving it up to someone else to take the initiative in order to secure the outcome you want may not be the best course of action.

I've seen some posts about wikitorrents the past few days; finally went to see the site. Perhaps the amount of unique page views (especially on that page) is a side effect of ycombinator brand and timing of events and investors trying to see what kind of companies ycombinator wants to invest in (in an effort to better their own investments).

What are the unique page views from other pages? Or the entire site in general? Why should someone use this site as oppose to something like facebook or del.icio.us? Aside from combining two buzzwords together (wiki and torrent), I can't actually tell what the site is really about (and there's nothing that would point me to some description...) or the value it would provide. Also, I don't really see what it has to do with bittorrent except for a banner on the right side.

Hope this feedback helps.

WikiTorrents doesn't really have much to do with bittorrent. It's an evolving idea.

The idea is simple: if you can come up with a good, unique, specific list of videos, then you can translate that easy into lots of traffic. Traffic = traction = money.

who gets the money? =P Why wouldn't I just put that list of videos on my own blog to generate revenue?

I think my point is that it's not enough to just make something that's already been done (a website of a list of stuff...). Your solution needs to solve someone's problem... say if you had some algorithm that could generate these interesting lists of videos w/o user intervention, or some automation to aggregate videos of similar content.

..I agree with your suggestions. But algorithms without user intervention and automatic aggregation sound like version 2.0 features. My idea right now is building something that reliably works, basically a version 1.0 product.

What if you compiled all of this scraped data and made microsites for each category? I think your idea is interesting but so far the implementation is off-putting. You could do all sorts of organic SEO tweaks and then put some ads on the pages for a revenue stream.

Don't give up, but also don't expect people to throw money at you for making something. If that were true, everyone on HN would be millionaires.

I don't consider my goal of 500/week to pursue the idea much the equivalent of people throwing money at me.

That's about minimum wage to pursue a technical idea that might payoff big. $500 a week is nothing by silicon valley standards.

Have you considered the possibility that your awful attitude, inflated sense of entitlement, over-attachment to a poor implementation of an unfocused idea, etc. are contributing to your lack of success finding this all important fabled VC money? Let that sink in.

Now, I gave you encouragement and a legitimate suggestion on how to take what you have and spin it into something that would probably generate some money. Others have done the same in this thread. You responded with a delusional claim that people should provide money for you just because your idea "might" pay off big. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence on HN that speculative words like "might" are pretty worthless. If you think your idea is that good, commit to it, prove us all wrong.

It is however counter productive to complain to fellow HNers, who are most sympathetic to the frustrations of trying to build products people want, about some bias against you because no one wants to give you jobs or money for your talents. That is not how it works.

Couldn't agree more with krisneuharth. I think many people have posted on this thread in an attempt to provide constructive, candid feedback to help you out, but the way you are reacting so negatively to it all is really counterproductive.

One trait you'll find in any successful entrepreneur is the ability to have a thick skin and be open to feedback from others, even when it isn't what they want to hear. That doesn't mean you need to act on or even agree with others' advice, but if you really want to increase your chances of success you need to be able to at least hear others out in a respectful way.

When reality doesn't match expectations, modify expectations to match reality.

You can start by actually getting realistic data on:

1) Time to get angel investment

2) Number of people with 3000 unique in a single day that hit front page HN.[I reach front page only for a brief period and had 2k unique visits, twice]

What exactly is your project?

I looked at your link, but it seems like it's just a collection of videos. I went to the main site, but it seems like it's a blog.

Ok, what is it sustainable competitive advantage?

How do you plan on getting traction?

What are the legal implications?

How much have you personally invested both in terms of time and money into this project?

What previous projects have you completed?

Can you get a friend to co-found this with you?

Show us something that would indicate you punch above your weight class, eg Academics, Social, Hacking.

"Twenty years of real-world experience in various technology-related jobs." It is worrying that you don't have anything to show after such a long time period. Well, all i can say all the best.

Are you getting 3000 unique impressions every day to your yc list or just on the day you posted it? Whats the fall off like?

How is it different from other torrent sites?

Is making a site or a business around other people's data (YouTube's, Vimeo's etc) a bit risky in the sense that if YouTube changed their policy or terms, or just got arsey, and blocked your access you might be left high and dry?

If I were an investor (which I'm not - no experience or skills in that area) I would be interested to hear your answer on that. What would plan "B" be if something like that were to happen?

Did any one of those 3000 spend the time to actually make a list? If not, maybe you should think about why they didn't.

re: "I don't have much in previous projects worth showing off."

Maybe that is part of the problem.

There's a huge difference between "3000 uniques a day" and "3000 uniques in a single day". What's your average traffic per day this month?

But more importantly, there's really no necessary correlation between traffic and value. (examples: wikileaks, geocities, cuil, somafm, and, well I mean just browse through TC's deadpool)

Can you instantly answer what your business model is? How much revenue you expect to have in the next 6 months? What your competitors are doing, and how your service differs? Who your users are? And what the next iteration of your product will be?

If you have to think about those things, you're not ready to be acquired.

(disclaimer: I'm talking out of my ass based on what I've read not what I've learned.)

If you need money so bad, why not move away from San Francisco?

To put it simply, your value proposition doesn't exist. Maybe after years of seeding the site with content, but right now I cannot "find a continually evolving list about whatever topic." In order to gain traction among users, you must provide me value _now_.

I know you might feel like you're getting beat up in this thread, but every comment I've read has been constructive criticism. Take it in stride and don't discount anything offhand. I can almost see your vision for WikiTorrents; it has merit. You're certainly passionate so I believe you can do it.

I've avoided posting because there's really nothing more to say, but c'mon! Are you really comparing yourself to Jerry Yang? That was in the 90's and he was one of the first. That bus has come and gone. Just like if I put up a list of my favorite links. No way in hell is that going to turn into allenslist.com and make me a million bucks for doing nothing.

There is way more competition now. Listen to what people are telling you.

One thing to take into account is that Jerry Yang and David Filo did their Yahoo directory in 1994 when there was a great need for search engines and people just didn't know what was out there. Their directory gave people a way of seeing what was there.

They also have great timing. They did it in Jan. 1994, only a few months after the first few search engines. So lots of people not knowing about their other options and a great need for a 'directory' of the relatively unsearchable web made their company very popular.

citizenkeys, how can I can contact you? I feel like you're missing some key points--I want to help you.

You remind me of myself a couple years back. If you're willing to give it a shot, I could probably save you a lot of time and hassle...abrandt@bradley.edu

"before I go to Thursday NightLife at the California Academy of Sciences"

Nice. And you wonder why you are not getting funding?

If you can do this, I'd use the website. Maybe it's a pivot point.

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. A list of every video related to Gary V, Seth Godin, Alexis, etc, on the web. Start with big names and then tag these videos.

2. Now that they are tagged you can start to search for SaaS and I can watch everything ever said about SaaS on the internet.

I like this idea, but the website is less than ideal. You need to focus on a niche and get acceptance there.

What were the 3 legitimate inquiries? And how did you respond? What kind of money and terms are you trying to raise?

clickable: http://wikitorrents.org/wiki/ycombinator_applicants

A day later? Give it a week or two.

Link to video?

video of what?

i don't know why everyone's giving you so much shit. ignore them and proceed with your idea. like you said, you OBVIOUSLY have talent. who cares what a bunch of nerds think. are they your taret market?? serve them with the ycombinator videos. then find MORE markets. HN is just a fraction of the internet

p.s. i feel like you could use a free awesomenessreminder, contact via email and i'll hook you up

You all criticize my idea and yet "workflowy" is a YC-funded site devoted to making lists: http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/04/workflow/

http://hackerne.ws/item?id=1870473

I checked out your site, and also checked workflowy just now.

Let's compare and contrast.

1. They have at least a somewhat clear and professional design. One that's focused on just the one problem they're solving. (I do have to criticize the horrible kerning between the "W" and "o" of their name though.) Minor quibbles like that aside, your site design is awkward at best.

2. They have a video that explains the problem they are trying to solve; and you only need to watch the first fifteen seconds or so to understand that they are an online outlining tool. Does the world need that? I don't know. But it seems they are definitely solving a problem. Your site is unclear and lacks this kind of focus.

I think many of you are missing the forest for the trees. If the idea were profitable, I wouldn't be looking for seed money. If the implementation of my idea were very refined, then it would be a mature product and not a working prototype.

The idea now is a working prototype of a site where users can create lists of videos. That's all the idea is supposed to be. Right now, it's very rough around the edges with lots of usability issues. That's why I need seed money to work on it and make it user-friendly, add features, move features, etc.

If I may paraphrase Paul Graham, implement an idea that the founder himself needs. In my case, it's lists of videos I can find all over the Internet. To quote Paul Graham again, release early, release often, and surprise your users by constantly listening to them and revising the product.

Every startup has the chicken and egg problem -- It's worth a million dollars, but only if it had the customers/dollars/advertising/partnerships to make it succeed.

You've obviously got belief and vision for the project, which are great traits to have. But consider yourself being an investor. How do you calculate the ROI? Will giving you $500/week (peanuts) generate a future return of $1,000/week or $20,000/week, or maybe just $10/week? Investors are business people, so they need some way to guesstimate a ROI. If I sponsor you, then how can you convince me that I will at least break even on the investment within the next 2 years?

How does a band get signed to a contract with a major label?

Most often, they play shows. They tour. They put out their own releases. They make money. Success attracts attention.

When they have demonstrated value, the big money is attracted. So far, I don't see any value in your site. I think you need to articulate this better, and, you know, actually make some money.

If you can't make any money, why should anyone invest?

the average computer user doesn't know what a torrent is, and a google or bing video search is easier for them everytime.