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Exercise More to Hack Better (datasyndrome.com)
126 points by rjurney on Nov 4, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 103 comments



It's even worse than lowered productivity for me. I just start getting straight-up depressed; just absolutely terrible feeling. No energy, no drive, no light. And then I realize that somewhere in the last two weeks I stopped my regular exercise regiment for some reason or another and pick it back up - cured instantly.

It's easy to fool yourself into thinking that the funk caused the stop in exercise but that's nearly never the case.

EVERYBODY, hacker or not, should be getting regular exercise. Please. You won't regret it.


Same thing here. Stopped running, restarted 3 days ago, feeling better already.

Although I do think that doing something like painting a house or doing gardening for a couple hours would also do the trick.


From experience, I would say activities like painting a house, or gardening aren't a substitute to running in every aspect; sure, they can clear up your mind, but you won't experience an improved cardiovascular and respiratory health, or even a "high".


I like to "garden" using a chainsaw. That's a pretty good workout.


When I lived in areas that had a lot of snow, I enjoyed the workout of shoveling snow. Always felt fantastic doing it and afterward, so much so that I'd often fantasize about shoveling the entire neighborhood if I had enough time.



This reminds me of the ex Google programmer who switched to a job in the lumbering industry: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/c1rcu/iama_person_with...


Problem is with that type of regime, you'd end up with no garden left and some really annoyed neighbours.


the closest neighbours are several hundred metres away, and the garden is large and located in a very fertile area. It only gets attacked like that a couple of times a year. It's not something you'd do every night after work.


Oh to be able to run around a garden with a chainsaw. Sadly I like in a block of flats, and you'd be glared at for smoking outside. Lucky you.


As a rule of thumb, the best predictor of your mental health is what you do physically, and the best predictor of your physical health is what you spend all day thinking about.[1] Kind of funny how that works.

[1] Assuming you're not outright poisoning yourself or something.


You are so right of course. Even a few breaks throughout the day - increases my coding. If I forgo any kind of exercise - it's a fast downward cycle.


My problem with deliberate exercise is that it doesn't feel purposeful (vague notions of improved health notwithstanding). Picking up a chunk of iron just to put it back down again or stomping on a moving platform just to remain in the same place feels about as useful as typing out a bunch of boilerplate code just to delete it shortly afterwards. I might change this attitude should I find more interesting activities.

Instead, I choose to integrate exercise into my lifestyle rather than go out of my way to do it. Serious gym rats will scoff at me, but it's far more satisfying to carry a 10-kg watermelon home from the supermarket 3 km away.

It's also a lot easier when the exercise is compulsory. Twice a day I pass through 1.5 km of hilly terrain to reach my bus stop, and the panoramic view of the city along the way is certainly a nice bonus.


Try a sport!

I too hate treadmills and lifting weights -- it's just dreadfully boring. However, if you pick up a sport, you can hone your coordination skills and progress to become a better player. I find that it's much more motivating when you're competing with people. And, I feel much better knowing that I am acquiring a useful skill that can be measured against in competition.

Personally, I play competitive table tennis (very unlike garage ping pong). What's good is that you can actually do this inside, and, it's cheap to play at clubs. It's also a sport that keeps your mind sharp. I even wrote a whole article about why I think it's a great hacker sport: http://jamesyu.org/2009/01/11/why-table-tennis-is-a-great-ha...


I want to echo your advice. I recently started playing a combat sport after a few years of not really exercising. I have no illusions about its likely effectiveness in a real fight (not much), but since I don't plan on getting in a real fight that doesn't matter.

It is fun and interesting compared to other forms of exercise I've tried, and it definitely helps me get my cardio up. There are a couple other benefits too: when you are paying $150 a month for the class sessions, you show up. And it's easier to keep going with an instructor there pushing you than by yourself. There's also no team depending on you to be good, so there's not the same kind of pressure to perform. For someone like me whose self-control and discipline are perhaps below average, these benefits are no small issue.

I didn't start doing this to be a better worker; my primary motivation was vanity. But anecdotally, I have noticed that my productivity level has been somewhat elevated in the month since I started doing it. I'm not sure if it's the fact that I have to leave work at exactly six PM every day, giving me a solid deadline for whatever I want to accomplish in a day, or if it's the exercise itself. Heck, it could be a mix. But as far as I've seen so far I would definitely recommend it.


Martial arts have an extra motivation bonus as well. You're much less likely to give up and stop moving when your opponent is still trying to hit you.


The best part when you pick up a sport is that it'll often make treadmills and lifting weights less boring. Once you realize "this hunk of iron I'm moving will let me throw further" or "this moving platform lets me play longer", then you'll have a much better time doing that stuff.

If your looking for sports, many cities have adult social/recreational sports clubs. I know Toronto has several. And if you don't know any sports, dodgeball is always fun! Just keep moving the whole time. Apologies to anyone to whom dodge ball is linked to poor physed memories.


Treadmills suck of course, if you are on treadmill, you could more easily and cheaply just go outside to walk/jog/run and get some fresh air while you're at it.

But I disagree on "lifting weights". I suppose that most people don't see it as a sport, which "lifting weights" isn't, granted. But things like powerlifting, olympic weightlifting, strongman competitions are sports, which require coordination, skills and progress to become better at them. And they can be very satisfying since they are so easily measurable. I still remember the first time I dead-lifted twice my body-weight. Feels good man.


I strongly disagree. While I prefer cycling or running to a stationary bike or threadmill, I can use the latter without worrying about the hazards of traffic or terrain when I'm exhausted after a long day of work. I've hurt my ankle too often while running in nature absent-mindedly.


I used to think EXACTLY like you. I'm not kidding, exactly.

A friend got me into the gym, and it turns out it's a hell of a lot different than I thought. Lifting 10-lb dumbbells forever will make your brain go numb, but if you boost the weight up to the point you can only do 3x5 or 5x5 (3 or 5 sets of 5), the weight becomes the purpose. I don't know how to put it better than that- once you're halfway through a rep, you have to devote all your ability to getting the damn thing back in the air.

The first 1-2 trips will not be very exciting because you'll be learning technique and starting with low weights so as not to overshoot your abilities, but give it a shot and stick it out for 2-3 weeks, and see how it goes.

(It will get to the point where you don't want to go or you don't want to do the next set because it's hard- but that is easier to get past than the frustration with pointless menial labor)

http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-tra...

p.s. as noted in the article, the gym is not quite the same as exercise, but this was in response to your specific point.


first 1-2 trips? Heck, I go 3X/week, and the first 1-2 months weren't very exciting.

but now I look forward to every session. I'm still in the 'rapid gains' part of the curve. (And I'm 48.)


So you buy a watermelon every day? No. That is the problem with your method, you really should be doing something every day.

And if you are not sweating, it is not exercise. Make as many excuses as you want, lots of people do, but you will feel better if you do actually exercise.


"Picking up a chunk of iron just to put it back down again"

Then you sort of missed the point a bit. The point of the exercise is

a) to challenge your physical, and yes, mental limits in a ways nothing else in the modern world really does, and b) master the form of the exercises, which can be surprisingly intricate, and c) become stronger, moving on to ever more challenging weights.


I find that biking works well if you get bored of exercising for only exercise sakes.

1) Commute with it rather than taking a car or bus

2) Explore the neighborhood / local trails /etc with it.


Do you have any sort of physical or fitness-related goals you could set for yourself for your exercise? Working towards a goal makes all the difference.

A goal could be anything from training to run a 5K, a marathon, being able to squat your body weight, be able to do five pull-ups, lose 10 pounds etc...


That is why I started surfing. Nothing motivates you to max your heart rate than another set coming that will put you through a spin cycle if you don't get back outside the impact zone before it arrives. It has to be a part of your life.


there is always the option of not returning through the break.


When you're in the impact zone, returning that way can be pretty unpleasant. But yeah - its the fun that compels you to keep going.


I love lifting weights. Particularly the lack of thought and physicality that is required. It's a tremendous break from my norm.


'lack of thought'? I find weight-lifting at least 1/3 'mental'. More mind: more recruitment.


One of my cofounders has a PhD in neuroscience. Whenever I am stuck on a technical issue, he encourages me to get up and exercise for a while. His reasoning is that vigorous activity increases bloodflow to the brain, which in turn leads to creative problem solving.

Anecdotally, this has served me well so far. Our entire architecture came to me during the middle of a hellish session on the treadmill.


I wouldn't agree at all with 'the gym don't count' - I'm an on-off gym user for years now and can say that my energy levels are so much higher when I am exercising multiple times weekly, whether is be cardio or weight lifting. My general mood and spark is multiplied, to the surprise of many who believe they are exhausted most evenings and certainly couldn't put any spare energy to a workout.

When I'm not working out - I also suffer a peculiar kind of depression mentioned here in the comments. Yet I'm not sure how much of this is due to a release of certain chemicals in the body, or the psychological hit of knowing you're letting yourself go. Either way, I'm back in the gym after 3 weeks out: last week I struggled to get up, today I'm up and coding at 5am. Much like exercise itself, work out what's best for you and realise the importance of training your body as much as we all train our mind.

Edit: spelling correction


I'll second everything said here. "The gym doesn't count" is an utter lie. If you've led a multiple-year sedentary lifestyle, a mere 15 minutes on a treadmill in the morning will show you an immediate difference in your motivation and mental clarity.

Also, fat-asses: you don't have to kill yourself at the gym. Look up on the internet what your target heart rate should be, and stick to it. If you feel like you're going to fall over and die, you're making it too hard on yourself.

If you're just getting started, developing the habit of going regularly (at least 3x/week) is immensely more important than minutes ran, reps, or pounds lifted.

It's incredibly hard to start and stick to a routine if you're not used to it. I've only done it three times in my life, but it paid off every time. And the years in between were racked with life-altering depression and failure.


Hackers are inside all the time. You're telling me 15 minutes on a treadmill beats 15 minutes outside for your well being?


Where did you get that? I'm telling you that 15 minutes on a treadmill beats doing no exercise at all. It's contemptible to suggest to a sedentary person that if they can't exercise outside in the sun then they shouldn't even bother.


It is contemptible to suggest that I suggested that. You can go outside, so you should.


I have found weight lifting to be the best kind of exercising for me. When I was at studying and working part-time I found that if I went jogging I'd still continue thinking about work and school stuff. When I'm lifting, thats the only thing I'm concerned about. When you have squatted down with heavy weight on your back, you don't stress about anything else than getting back up. Strength training can also help prevent typical physical problems hackers face, such as neck and back pains.


Exercise also grows neurons, according to many recent studies (so the effect is more than just short-term). See e.g. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/what-sort-of-exerci...


I can't back this up with statistics but I'd hazard a guess that a portion of antidepressant subscriptions are entirely related to a sedentary lifestyle.

My world goes completely to shit if I'm not exercising on a regular basis, it changes everything.


The World Health Organization predicts that depression will create the second greatest burden of disease by 2020, requiring cost-effective prevention and intervention strategies. The evidence to support the benefits of exercise in offering protection from depression and as an intervention in the treatment of mental illness is growing. The literature is reviewed with 11 prospective longitudinal studies that include measures of physical activity and depression at two or more time points showing a protective effect from physical activity. Fifteen randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and three meta- analyses provide evidence that exercise can reduce depression and that it can be as effective as cognitive therapy. Four RCTs report exercise as an intervention in alcohol addiction and two RCTs in the use of illicit drugs. While many of the studies reviewed have methodological weaknesses, including lack of concealment in randomization, limited use of intention to treat and blinding, the benefits of exercise far outweigh the risks. There is evidence that exercise protects against depression and is an effective intervention and adjunctive intervention for the treatment of mild to moderate depression. Exercise provides some health and psychological benefits as an adjunct to treatment in complex mental health problems such as alcohol and drug rehabilitation. [1]

[1] MARIE E. DONAGHY School of Health Sciences, Queen Margaret University, Leith Campus, Edinburgh


Agree 100%. Also caffeine. Not doing anything, and getting pep from caffeine is like a recipe for a Paxil prescription.


After going outside and walking in the sun for a couple of hours, I'm too tired to get any work done the rest of the day.

As far as I can tell, everything said about exercise is lies. Or perhaps mileage varies. Just remember, mileage varies, and also, you're not alone.


Walking around for a couple hours is not really exercise, it's normal human behavior. For instance, my 86 year old grandfather does this every day. If you aren't exaggerating you might want to see a doctor. That level of exercise intolerance is a key indicator in a number of severe health disorders, such as morbid obesity, congestive heart failure and multiple sclerosis.


Having seen the way you look in not-too-old videos, you look overweight, and your upper-body looks rather weak. That makes me fear for your life expectancy. I love your work, and it may be crucial that you don't stop cold until at least your eighties.

Of course, getting in good physical shape won't be easy. It takes time, and may even slow down your work, at first. But you may want to seriously consider the long term trade-off.


To put it another way, one hour at the gym has the highest marginal return at curing death among all hours you will spend today.

I go for a similar reason: I'm banking time for my children.


I should mention that I seem to be one of the substantial fraction of the population who's immune to exercise. I went to a gym for a year, spent two hours three times a week, aerobic and weightlifting. I didn't gain any muscle. I didn't lose any weight. It does nothing for me. Yes, I know it works for you. This is not because of your superior mental discipline; it is because you have different genes, sir.


@ "Yes, I know it works for you. This is not because of your superior mental discipline; it is because you have different genes, sir."

This sounds like an excuse, since nobody mentioned "superior mental discipline" but you. How did you measure gain in muscle?


Try swimming 20 laps in an indoor pool then? Or something else not in the hot sun. Several hours in the hot sun is draining to anyone, regardless of your penchant for exercise.


Same here; exercise does nothing for me mentally other than making me tired. I still do it because I want to improve my health and appearance, but apparently I'm not getting the endorphin release or whatever it is that makes everybody else feel better. Or it could be a placebo effect that works for most people and not me.


You have to do it regularly. :) It sucks at first.


Is this a meth argument? If I'm relatively okay without exercise, and start exercising, staying on it for a while, the anecdotes here seem to suggest that if you ever stop it throws you in a huge funk.


It's not a huge funk, you just drop back to your non-exercise level of health and happiness. It's more an indicator of the positive impact it can have than something negative.


Yes, only the opposite of what you suggest.

You are in a state of permanent withdrawal right now. You feel like crap, way worse than you're supposed to, and you don't know it. Your body requires exercise and you aren't giving it what it needs.

Yes, if you stop exercising you will return to your current relatively miserable state. Thats the worst that would happen - which is actually pretty bad.


I hope you're using "you" in the general sense, since a) as a rule one shouldn't trust people's medical judgments (especially when they don't know you) unless they're a doctor, and even then, get second opinions etc., and b) you're experimentally wrong.


Go outside.


I do it three times a week. Still.


Find a different form of exercise that you enjoy.


Drink more water. Dehydration is your enemy.


You must stay hydrated, but I'm not sure if drinking water is good advice. You have to not forget your electrolytes. Something like Gatorade works, though.


In moderation. Some people consume more calories than they burn by chugging sports drinks during a workout.


And most people aren't exercising any anywhere near the level that they need something more than water to stay hydrated.

Mind you, it's amusing when you see unhealthy people drinking them thinking that they're better than any other sugary drink.


Vita coco is awesome for this!


Just exercise in the end of the day, and then you can sleep if you feel like.


I believe there's a hockey stick there. I too had such experiences regarding exercises a few year back then, but after I decided to stick to it things started to improve, and now I do get more energetic even after rigorous workouts. I would theorizes that if you don't really exercise that regularly, exercise is indeed more a burden at first, and you need to work on it until it becomes 'profitable' one day.


Two hours is kinda long if you aren't used to it. I would try to build it up from half an hour or so upwards. Though I don't believe in any (continuous) exercise that is supposed to take more than an hour or so.


I think this is largely true. I've lost a lot of weight in the last eighteen months, and started exercising, and I find that my concentration and ability to handle abstraction are significantly better when I'm working out than not. Healthy body, healthy mind and all that.


I don't know how many more of these kinds of posts I have to read before I get my act together. One more at least.


Get up off your ass, get out there and just do it!


Lately I've found the best way for meto consistently exercise is to incorporate it with hacking and work. I've started using my bike as my primary mode of transportation when I leave the house to program. So instead of driving to a coffee shop or library, I ride my bike. Its made a noticeable difference in my energy, creativity levels and ability to focus.


Not central to the authors point, but I think surfing, and exercise like it (mountain biking, for instance) are superior to simply hitting the treadmill. Getting out into nature and getting some vitamin D is a whole lot better than doing the rat-run in a gym cardio room. That said, anything is better than nothing.


In northern California, it's often cool enough to require covering most of your skin. A person surfing at Linda Mar is almost certainly wearing a wetsuit and gloves. This covers almost all of the body and drastically reduces vitamin D production.

To reliably get vitamin D, take a supplement. Exercising outside is more fun than a gym, but it won't make you any healthier than doing the same thing indoors.


Definitely going outside is required. The gym does not give you the same benefit, imo. Its definitely also about connecting with nature.

Editing now to clarify, thanks!


Pet peeves with these types of comments/articles:

1) They are completely anecdotal. "This worked for me, so it applies equally to all 7+ billion humans on this earth!"

2) They assume that everyone lives in the same climate and/or lives in a similar region. e.g. How are you supposed to 'connect with nature and the sun' when you live in Alaska and it's dark 6 months out of the year? How are you supposed to regularly 'connect with nature' when you live in the middle of a metropolis?


Seriously. Forget alaska, I live in the northeast and this time of year it is dark before I go to work and dark when I get out. And it is mostly gray inbetween. Right now it is borderline freezing and pouring rain out there, I choose the gym over my usual jog this morning. There was no Vitamin D to be had anyway.


1) Almost all 7 billion humans on earth don't have a problem with not going outside. Just the Hacker News crowd.

2) I'm not assuming anything. Alaskans can snowmobile or dogsled.

Stop making excuses and go outside. You will thank me for it.


I already go outside. Stop assuming that you know anything about be just because I'm part of the 'Hacker News crowd.'


My sport of choice is beach volleyball (2v2). My problem is that I'm wildly obsessive - so instead of just going out there and playing volleyball for a couple hours, then heading home to work, I stay at the beach for 5-6 hours, and after that I'm completely spent. And then the next day, if it's mildly nice, I'll just head back to the beach because I'm completely obsessed with improving my game.

I'm finding that late fall is doing wonders for my productivity, since the beach is colder now (but damn nice for Wisconsin November), I'll only spend 2-3 hours down there once or twice a week, rather than 6-7 hours 4-5 times a week (summer schedule).

But I do recommend picking up a sport. Good exercise and doesn't feel like a waste of time, the way lifting does (though I do try to do lifting to improve my game, even if it's boring as watching grass grow).


Obsessive behaviour can be remedied. If you want.


I can't stop running. It's too addicting.

Though, I can't help but feel the pain of my exercise.


If by 'pain' you're referring to the bone and joint pain alot of runners eventually incur, try swimming an/or biking too. I find you can get the same cardio workout minus the pounding and wear & tear.


Mostly, it's my lungs that's getting tired out. My legs are completely fine for a while with some conditioning until I run longer than I used to. That's when I experience pain, because my legs is getting too tired. These days, it's alway one of the other but never both.

At the start, both my lungs and my legs are pretty much exhausted. Now my lungs and legs can endure for much longer.


It could be your shoes as well. I've been running for a couple years, and take frequent breaks now.

Vary your run; do different distances, speeds etc. But don't neglect shoes; indulge in a new one every 500 Km.


I don't use shoes at all when I run.

However, I would be willing to buy shoes like the vibram 5 fingers to protect me from the occasional pebbles and the dangerous glasses but not modify how I run barefoot.


what do you do in winter?


Run faster.


I just did in the cold. The heat that your body accumulated over exercise really does make everything warm.


Same here. People don't know how high one can get just with running.


I work from home, and either run or swim during lunchtime. It's great, I get so much more done. If you start, the first weeks you will feel very tired and it seems counter-productive. After a while, you suddenly realize that you are way more productive. If you run races regularly, you'll also see progress, which is great for motivation and general self-esteem.

That being said, the trick to keep running is to stay injury-free, and this is harder than it may sound. Don't run very long distances, take a lot of rest (I run every other day and sleep a lot), and do lots of interval running. Listen to your body: never, ever ignore injuries. If you feel pain, don't run until it's gone. Don't think you're special and tough and you can run through the pain (I did that, and it didn't work).


...and don't buy expensive running shoes. The more padding a shoe has the more it leads to bad technique that actually increases the impact on joints. Humans are made to run, go thin-sole or 5fingers to teach yourself proper technique.


We also weren't made to run on asphalt and concrete. I agree with thin sole for trail running, but don't you need some sort of artificial cushion on hard surfaces?


It depends on how you land. I land on my forefoot, which means I don't need cushioning at all. Previously, I landed on my heel, which is when you need the cushioning. If you really want to go all the way, search for "natural running", those people run without shoes, even in the winter.


I notice ideas come to me more readily when exercising, especially on the beach. Sometimes I get such a flood of ideas I run faster to get home to write them down. If you can't get outside, juggling is a great indoor exercise, and it also helps with focus.


My "exercise hack" (if one might call it that) is to do some isometric holds in my closet doorframe, and around a few of the sturdier metal bars in my vicinity when I go on walks. The holds aim for around five seconds length at maximum intensity(but without overly spiking blood pressure, something which is learned with practice).

It takes 5-10 minutes per day and has a dramatic soothing effect almost immediately.


Mine is short intense workouts early in the morning. 3 birds with 1 stone.


Go outside.


I started running again after I read Spark by John Ratey. Look it up on Amazon or your local library. Yes we are born to run and then hack it seems.

Of course I am totally wired up with a heart rate monitor/watch/iphone/gps which makes it more fun.

Whatever works for you. Run or whatever gets you pumping then hack like you never have.


Exercise makes an amazing difference. I began a marathon training program six month ago, and it has dramatically impacted my energy level.

I haven't gotten sharper in the past six months, but I'm more robust to energy-sapping conditions. An occasional bad night of sleep doesn't ruin my work day. I have a lesser mental block when starting big projects. I'm not worn out after a long work day, so I've worked more on pet projects without sacrificing time with my girlfriend. I have a major incentive to eat light, since nothing is worse than a hard run with a stomach full of grease. As a plus, I now understand the value of working incrementally towards a large goal.

I didn't find it difficult to work into my schedule. My highest-mileage week only took six hours of my time, and most weeks were less than four hours.


For people who can't get motivated about treadmills or lifting weights and who have the space, a full length (floor to ceiling) punch bag comes highly recommended. I lost 60lbs in 6 months by channelling my aggression and frustration into that bag for 15 minutes at the start of each day. Take a few Muay Thai classes at your local gym so that you know how to punch and kick, then go to town on that bag as often as you can. After the first 3 weeks you won't be able to go a day without using the bag, it's addictive and probably one of the most effective forms of exercise after running.


I commute by bike (2x30 min/day), go running 1h30 once a week and have a rowing machine (1h/week). I don't want to live without these highs. It also helped me in productivity and mental illness.


This year I joined a cycling club and starting riding time trials. I'm now training hard to improve my times for next season.

Having something to aim for works for me. It doesn't have to be competitive either, setting yourself personal goals works too.


I usually start and finish my day exercising. However, motivation comes from recording each workout to measure my progress and adjust training accordingly. It's hacking your body and any kind of hacking is fun :-)


I absolutely agree with this %100, "Get up, go outside, move around, and come back. You’ll get more done."

Not only helps with the Vitamin. D, but gives your sub-conscience time to process the top idea/problem on your mind.


exercise reduces stress. stress encroaches on working memory.




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