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Moving countries isn't really viable option for most people. I'm happy to stick around here and try to make this place better.

Anyway, I'd gladly admit that money isn't the only thing. But it's an important thing. If people in your government aren't using that money wisely (and you live in a democracy): Vote for people who will.

And realize that there's no utopian solution: There's stuff that's better and stuff that's worse. Any system will have major flaws. Crooked timber of humanity, and all that.




>Vote for people who will.

It really, truly is not that simple:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice


Sweet summer child. Even as a citizen of an EU country, I don’t have the right to vote in the country I pay the taxes and contributions in.


Just move to a US state?


It is not as simple as just voting better, more consistently.

The balance of money in politics has taken representation well away from the needs and basic interests of ordinary people. (Among other things.)

There needs to be people and policy to vote for. Tepid turnout is rooted in the lack of both and that is rooted in the money imbalance.

Much of our current body politic is vote against. Secondly, it is often about implied mutual, public good too. What did I just say?

One example is the lesser evil type conversation. Related is the "not those people" conversation. In simple terms, we point to bad, and the idea is get rid of bad, which implies good or better will be the outcome.

The reality is there will simply not be a robust, mutual, public good, unless we are explicit about it. That means positive policy advocacy, a current, national example being Medicare For All. Many other examples are easy to find, once a person begins seeking positive politics.

That is vote for as opposed to vote against.

Finally, we have a lot of fear, blame and shame in our body politic. These things do motivate people, but not all people, and not in the same ways.

Because vote against bad does not necessarily mean we are left with good, or a net progress type gain, many people see this as futile and prefer to put their time anywhere but politics.

What complicates all this is judgement. Voted "wrong", did not vote, and so forth. The reality is we did what we did and we had reasons. Fair enough.

The progress does not come from thrashing about those things. Understanding others and why they made the choices they have made is never a bad thing however. There is a lot more to all of that than many of us will admit. Worth it.

It, this better we crave, need, comes from the votes we will cast together. The votes to come and the reasons for them. I have come to learn I do not want or need to judge others on their politics. I have also learned we all benefit when we demonstrate mutual respect and understanding.

Does not matter why, nor what any of us may think about all of that. It just is lower turnout and often a set of dubious, unexciting choices where we do not have more explicit policy visions to vote for, get behind.

Our remedy is a sustained, positive civic effort. People getting involved and doing so FOR things, basic, important things. Some will run for office, others will organize, others do advocacy, write code, produce media, etc...

A majority of people in the US are really struggling. I won't speak to answers here, just the "why didn't you vote?" part of this discussion.

Lack of vote FOR is why. Being jaded is why. Not being spoken to, or about, relevance is why.

Where we address those things, make basics explicit, people are motivated differently, and that GOTV looks very different from the usual fear, blame and shame dominated GOTV.

Think of this as an add, not a replace.

We can attract voters, ask for votes, explain why.

Notice how infrequently that ask actually happens? I do.

We cannot tell people what to do, and compelling them with fear, blame and shame has it's limits.

More is needed.

I do a lot of election related work. I have noticed people under 35 'ish are responding differently. There is a generational changing of the guard in progress.

New politics, positive, explicit politics are part of this shift.

Make no mistake. Money is a big deal. However, people to people politics is also a thing and it packs a big punch.

Put vote FOR politics out there, speak right to people, and they will turn out and with that, impact the body politic in positive ways. Support those people who put vote FOR politics out there. Few of us can, will run. That is OK. We all can play a role.

A better state of policy will be the most likely outcome.

All that is where my personal time and money goes. Honestly, a good metric seems to be about 5 to 10 percent of our personal time.

That is what I have been doing for a while now. More people are.

I feel better about politics, despite the horror show we have going on right now. I can laugh, as well as lament the pain.

But, I also have positives in play and a growing peer group doing similar things. This helps a lot, and it helps because I understand a lot more about the process and the more immediate impact local politics can have.

National politics is hard. Local is easier, and one can see good happen fairly quickly. It all adds up, in my view.

Voting is vital, but so is being involved. Activism, lending skills and time, simple volunteering all matter a lot more than I see many well meaning, but frustrated, people appear to realize.

One last thing. Nothing I put here is partisan. Examples given may be, but that is not my intent. Better politics happen within a more robust, vibrant body politic, and that is my intent.

Consider placing more trust in that, get involved, share with your friends. All that is where the good stuff is, money or no money. I did, and it helps. Maybe it will for you and yours too.


I like how your post differs from the pessimism of most HN posts when it comes to politics, and how you have a well thought-out strategy i.e. put the emphasis on explicit public goods and for things. Do you have any other examples aside from Medicare for All? I'd be interested in learning more.


Hey, I am way late on all this. Got blitzed and really only have a brief time to put info your way.

People break down into a few types, conditions. To a majority of Americans, there are three big issues most of them will express interest in:

Health Care Living Wages Debt, college and or personal.

Vote for is all about positive conversations surrounding those. What CAN we do, and how much sense does it make? it's also about not blaming or shaming or using fear.

Truth is, they feel fear already. They might not make it, or they might lose their house if they get sick. Slapping on something ugly like, "those people are going to make your life worse, unless you vote for X" turns people off big time. That is probably the single largest reason for anti-politics, not voting, the topic being taboo.

Judging people sucks. Scaring the shit out of them sucks, unless the scientists do it. That's OK. People get that.

Shaming them sucks too.

They feel shame because they either work hard, or can't find good work, or something basic, and they struggle. They need help. They don't want to need those things, but they do not know what to do either.

And blaming them? That's a core tenet of positive politics. Senator Sanders does a great job of this. He's worth watching, whether we agree on his policy prescriptions or not. That style of politicking is powerful.

The rest is in my comment.

Now, how to get going on this stuff?

Start local. In your town, there will be common issues. They will work like health care, living wages and debt do nationally. Examples:

Flu Shots Getting rid of some traffic. (huge in a lot of places) Parks Crime Preserve the landmark. Land use planning.

By talking to people, you can get a sense of what the local heartbeat is.

Then you contribute and encourage others to do the same. I once was part of a group that got a park made on an old abandoned site. It started with a couple of us realizing there wasn't one to serve the large number of kids in our region. Chatting with other parents didn't take long for consensus and momentum to pick up.

The city had a program for activities like this, and we got into it and got the work done. There is a little park somewhere with my name on it, right along with the core people, and we built the play things, did a lot of the basic work to contribute.

Common public good helps everyone, and it inverts the story. Often, we are being told we need to be concerned about matters that do not impact everyone equally. Couple that with fear, blame and shame, and it's all sort of ugly.

Rather than get sucked into that, it's much better to be about specific mutual good things and work to get them done.

Many issues are not even partisan. The park wasn't, and I found myself in a group with a diverse set of people. A couple of us were told we had to be mortal enemies. We laughed and had beers instead.

Hope this helps.

Specific ideas:

Run for a position in your party. These do not cost you, and you get to go to the party meetings and meet lots of people. It's networking for politics.

Seek out action groups. The better ones are positive, and are looking to get a specific thing done. Same story, networking for politics.

Identify positive candidates, and phone bank, text bank, donate, and all of that. Those people are winning races, and it's over 1/3 now easy. Each one helps dilute the mess we've got going on right now, and replace it with explicit, positive politics.

Have fun. That's no fucking joke. I laugh with my political friends and fellow advocates / activists all the damn time. I won't participate where that is not true.


Yes. I am not where I can do that justice.

Back a bit later.


You are in the DSA, I understand?


Sorry for my earlier, abrupt response.

Let me explain:

When I am doing this advocacy, I prefer it not be linked to specific parties. Same for general politics, but I do make an exception on M4A. It is too compelling of an example right now.

And this advocacy is foundation stuff. Improve democracy, empower peeps, that kind of thing. I believe in it passionately.

Greets and peace! :D


You shouldn't understand, because I did not say nor represent or imply that.




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