Once again, monads are a form of "disciplined mutation." They didn't repeat what you wrote, they contradicted your entire premise.
You didn't respond to anything they said and you doubled down with your nonsense about "Monads exist because because haskell people want to pretend that there is this ideal mathematical world where things dont change."
That monads ignore the "mutation reality" isn't a very strong point when monads are a concession for the "mutation reality." Unless you want to repeat yourself a third time, the ball is in your court to bring concrete supporting arguments since you're making the extreme and somewhat self-aggrandizing claim that these other people don't really see the mutation reality of the world like you do, thus they are using inferior tools.
I'd say that anyone specifically trying to corral/isolate their I/O code (monads or not) are so "enlightened" about the mutation reality of the world that they use specific abstractions to address it.
If you want to see code that tries to paper over I/O, look at a program where you can't even tell when and where the I/O is performed because it just looks like any other function call. Active Record in Ruby on Rails might be a good candidate in its effort to make DB access opaque to the programmer.
OK This has become a big feud, apologies for choosing the incorrect words and being rude. Let me put it another way by "disciplined mutation" all i meant was localised mutation. A lexically scoped local variable is enough to handle the spread of mutation, i dont see the need for a specific datatype to handle mutations exclusively. Monads make mutations explicit and global. I hope that makes sense.
You didn't respond to anything they said and you doubled down with your nonsense about "Monads exist because because haskell people want to pretend that there is this ideal mathematical world where things dont change."
That monads ignore the "mutation reality" isn't a very strong point when monads are a concession for the "mutation reality." Unless you want to repeat yourself a third time, the ball is in your court to bring concrete supporting arguments since you're making the extreme and somewhat self-aggrandizing claim that these other people don't really see the mutation reality of the world like you do, thus they are using inferior tools.
I'd say that anyone specifically trying to corral/isolate their I/O code (monads or not) are so "enlightened" about the mutation reality of the world that they use specific abstractions to address it.
If you want to see code that tries to paper over I/O, look at a program where you can't even tell when and where the I/O is performed because it just looks like any other function call. Active Record in Ruby on Rails might be a good candidate in its effort to make DB access opaque to the programmer.