I went to Gaza in the summer of 2016 and did a mini-AMA here on HN [0]. In short, it was a tremendously rewarding experience and I'd highly recommend it. The Gazans I met were driven, friendly, and very curious about what life in the states was like.
Happy to answer any questions not addressed on the site.
Visited Palestine in 2016 - such humble people and sad to see how they are treated. This is an awesome initiative and would be awesome to help out with.
As someone who lives in the region I am delighted to see initiatives like this. I wish in the future companies and personals will create bonds across the harsh borders.
Bnds accross the border are a good thing for sure, but I don't see how this will change anything today, and the only way forward to a Palestinian non-extreme democracy which is a precondition for peace, is through local resistance.
Engaging Palestinians in international collaborative projects which treat them like normal human beings and are aimed at doing something other than reinforcing their antipathy towards Israel is a helpful step towards non-extreme democracy
"Avoid wearing outward signs of support for Israel (and, if possible, symbols of Judaism) inside Palestinian areas as you may be mistaken for a Settler intending harm"
So you are saying it's not safe for a Jew to come. As wearing a kippah can lead to altercations.
Whataboutism doesn't really change the answer to the question...
Edit: considered not responding more, but since this seems like a possible safety issue: having spent many years living in the region (and with family who still live there), if you're an openly practicing Jew you should not spend extended amounts of time in the West Bank or Gaza unless you're willing to risk your life for your cause. A day trip is probably fine.
> Whataboutism doesn't really change the answer to the question...
I'll take that.
I think it was a bit of an uneccessary thing to point out when the website tries to be neutral about the issue and just tries to do something good. Don't get me wrong, if I am ever in the middle east, I'm not stepping out of Israel.
As much as wearing a kyffeia in any jewish neighborood can lead to some friendly 5vs1 improptu meetup in a dark alley with some of the local "security" (Rome ghetto would be an excellent example).
i'm not sure where you've been in israel but i've stayed in tel aviv and jerusalem a few times, and there are muslims absolutely everywhere from all ages and looks... Maybe kyffeia is something different because it carries an image of violence, and not just political fight ?
Much like wearing a nikab should be fine in most if the US , but carrying an al quaeda flag in new york wouldn't probably be a good idea..
And here in France the pro-Palestinians groups are accused of increasing antisemitism... I remember that one group of Israeli student going to various universities to have discussions with French students was prevented to enter one niversity near Paris by a group of pro-Palestinian students (but those studends were not from Palestine themselves).
And the situation is not help by French associations, like the CRIF, that label support of Palestine as antisemitism.
I believe that you don't have anything against jews. not sure you can just generalize across the board though. And this applies jews -> palestinians and palestinians -> jews.
Crossing the checkpoint was very easy. I just took an Israeli Egged bus to the settlement, visited the Cave of the Patriarchs, and walked to the checkpoint.
The Israeli guard didn't mind, just glanced at my passport and visa slip. A Palestinian hostel owner who happened to be on the street asked where I was staying. I told him I was going to stay with my friend Mo, who is a CouchSurfing host with hundreds of references, extremely hospitable, and truly legendary. You must visit him. That hostel owner said he knows Mo, and told me it's the right way!
I wasn't sure about how to take a bus and didn't want to pay for a taxi, so I walked for 45 minutes to Mo's place next to the university. During that time, people struck up conversations 3 times. That's more outgoing than the previous 3 days in Israel! People were happy to see a tourist there.
Water shortage is an issue. I was told that the Palestinian authorities can't improve the water supply because it's controlled by Israel. Palestinians pay double taxes, to both governments. Israeli shekels are used. It's peaceful, although the streets look like images from the news of bombed-out areas in Syria after 10 years of peace to rebuild and start businesses. What is more comfortable to you, riches with inequality or people living in equal poverty?
Israel, on the other hand, is rich and clean, with a good bus network (except on Fridays). People are more wary of strangers, though. I hadn't made an opinion of the political situation until my visit.
Re-entering Israel was easy, on a bus from Bethlehem to Jerusalem. Some military came on board and looked at the passports and visa slips, but didn't cross-check anything online.
On the way out at Ben Gurion airport, they didn't ask where I'd travelled on that trip. Instead, they noticed I'd been to Malaysia several years ago, and asked me many questions about that (Malaysia is a Muslim country). I had no problems with the Taiwan passport sticker [1]. They gave me another passport sticker [2] with a barcode beginning with "5", meaning I'm low-risk. They didn't check electronics. Most likely, you won't have a problem. If you're from a "Muslim country" then perhaps you can visit through the border with Jordan instead, just to avoid Israel. But Israel's quite nice to visit too (the sunset over the ocean from Haifa is beautiful).
> I travelled to Hebron and Bethlehem last month. Crossing the checkpoint was very easy
What's your ethnicity, what passport are you traveling on, and what's your family's religion (not your own personal religious beliefs, but your background)? Based on your username, I'm willing to bet that your situation isn't particularly applicable to the concerns OP expressed.
Israeli security is no joke, and they perform a degree of profiling that is explicitly illegal in the US (and some European countries, though to a lesser degree). There's some recent pushback against this and a few recent victories in Israeli courts for Muslims and non-Muslim Arabs, but the degree of profiling that occurs legally within Israel is still way further than what most other countries practice.
People who are from the US and Europe - particularly if they're white and especially if they're Jewish - generally have a good impression of Israeli security because they're rarely subjected to the most intrusive parts. People who are Muslim - especially if they're dark-skinned or Arab-looking - tend to have much worse experiences.
I know this will get downvoted because it's not the experience that most HN readers will have, but it is the experience that slim expects that they'll have, as evidenced by the very question they asked.
I almost missed flights from and to Israel twice because of their security. In one case, I took the wrong train and arrived at the airport under an hour from my flight, so they did extra screening and I barely made it. In the other, as I was boarding my flight, they refused to let me on (saying I should have known to come to security early - I was three hours early) until I went through two rounds of brief interrogation and they brought my carry on bag through security again, and broke the main zipper, and refused to pay for it. In another instance, my flight was delayed on the tarmac until several passengers (who had been sitting quietly) were forceably removed.
I'm white and Jewish and get hassled by security going in and out of Israel, every single time. Seriously. American passport and multiple trips in and out of the country.
All I can say is that the initial screening is done mostly by young women who are following very closely to some training they have and looking for how you react to questions. Most are secular and think religious Jews are only ultra-orthodox (because that's what they see day in and day out), so when I try to patiently explain that yes, I'm religious, no, I'm not orthodox, yes, I learned my Hebrew in Jerusalem at the municipal ulpan (intensive course for new immigrants), but no, I didn't take a package from anyone and packed my bags all by myself ... off to secondary screening.
It's frustrating, but you just can't take it personally. They're just playing the odds as they see them and going by the percentages.
Ben Gurion is a great airport once you get past security.
secular doesn't mean security checks shouldn't take ethnicity or religion into account.
i've travelled to israel twice and had complete screening twice simply because i was travelling alone and without a big luggage. And honestly i'm glad they did spend that time on me and not of the muslim family with 4 children that was travelling in the same flight. And since they saw i completely understood their concerns i ended up sympatizing with the person interrogating me, both times.
the thing people in western countries don't seem to understand ( although that varies depending on the number of terrorists attack that took place on their soils) is that security is vital to israelis. They don't want to humiliate anyone, they don't like the idea of spending millions in security systems, and they'd really like not having to search bags of people everywhere all the time. But they don't have a choice, and this is not a game to them.
I've always been a bit bummed that as software engineers, there tend to be less overseas volunteering opportunities than other forms of engineering.
I'll be honest and admit that I just want to go to cool places and do work there. There's always lots of roles for civil and mechanical engineers, as well as doctors, but there's never much need for software engineers in the jungles of Cambodia or the beaches of the Solomon Islands.
Unfortunately the only reasons these "bootcamps" exist is to creater cheaper workforce for tech companies. They don't provide good education, just specialization in the areas that the tech companies decided they want.
Is that wrong? Learning topics like computer science, which lack the ability to be generalized to other aspects of life, if and when there is not enough demand for it is worthless (in the sense that it has no value).
However, if companies desire a specific set of skills related to, but not exactly computer science (programming), it makes a lot of sense to create school focused on that particular subject — especially if they're willing to sponsor it. Further, it adds value to society as a whole, as by creating the goods/services people want cheaper, standard of living goes up.
Isn't it a good step towards a greater good ? If tech companies start to hire from ME, regardless of country, those people can make an impact for their own homelands.
Depends what you mean by greater good. Offshoring is pretty good for Western managers. No appreciable benefits for Western shareholders or customers, and big negatives for Western workers.
What about the offshore workers? They might benefit for a short time until an even cheaper location opens up, that’s all. Once the jobs are mobile, they will keep moving.
While I agree to an extent, I think it does a disservice to those that want to be involved in tech and can't take 3/4 years to get a degree to get past HR for an interview.
I've worked with a few bootcamp grads in the past. Some have been absolutely woeful, and others have been some of the most skilled developers I've ever worked with. While the bootcamp itself might be a way to get cheaper workers in, I'd argue that if it's producing good developers then it's a necessary evil.
Also, experience will always be valued by good employers, and an injection of inexperience into the workforce often means rising salaries/rates for senior developers.
Don't you think that being a hub for foreign companies would be an excellent way for Palestine to be recognized (and possibly protected) by the rest of the world?
I guess it's over 7-8 decades now that there land was taken away by people from other nationalities, so its high time that its recognized, otherwise International law/human rights are not served well in 21st century..
I traveled to Gaza to mentor with Gaza Sky Geeks in December. While I was there Trump decided to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and the leader of Hamas decided to respond by declaring a 'Day of Rage'. My writeup of that experience here: https://medium.com/@gillianim/what-its-like-in-gaza-on-a-day...
The TL;DR is that the majority of Palestinians are trying to live normal lives and don't care much about international political chess. As a foreigner I felt completely safe. Many Jewish people have mentored at Gaza Sky Geeks and had no issue. I traveled through the Erez checkpoint and didn't have my passport stamped, though I'm pretty sure some malware got installed on my computer when they took it away for 'screening'. Logistically, I had to apply for permits about two months in advance, and you never know whether you'll get in or not; but all in all my experience at all checkpoints and entrance/exit to Israel was straightforward. It was an incredible experience all around and I was so impressed with the Palestinian people in Gaza that I met. Happy to answer any questions for people thinking of going!
Very much so, yes. They’re not completely unaware of the need for PR though, so you’re unlikely to be hassled. Unlikely, but I for one wouldn’t take the chance. I realize that sentiment around this issue is massively polarized, but the reality is complex. Nobody likes to talk about what persona non grata Palestinians are in other Arab nations, and the degree to which their current circumstances are the result of that. The reasoning for that policy of containment by Arab nations ranges from political expediency, through racism, into genuine fear. It’s worth understanding the rationale for the whole spectrum before making a trip to Gaza.
It’s not as simple as people on either extreme of the issue would have you believe.
i haven't been to palestine (yet) but one of my closest friends is palestinian from west bank (and i've been following the occupation closely since i met him 10 years ago). it is astonishing to me that they're running this in gaza as well as west bank. i wish them well and wish i could support the effort somehow.
Logistcally getting in/out of Gaza is far more difficult than the West Bank. A western passport means you get get to places like Ramallah by simply driving there, some checkpoints you barely need to slow down, others they stop you and check your passports, but even late at night at Qalandiya, a British Passport works wonders (Different story if you're from the west bank of course)
Gaza on the other hand requires a ton of permits to get in
from what i've heard from my friend (who has both passports) the waits at checkpoints in the west bank are potentially interminable. now he does have both passports so that might be why
Depends so much on the checkpoint, time, method and mood. If you're a white family driving back from Bethlehem to Jerusalem at 8pm with a foreign passport, you'll barely notice it. If you're an Arab looking young male walking through qualandria at 8am with a West Bank ID card, you're screwed.
Gaza is a different ball game, it's always quiet, almost eerie at Erez, but it will still take over an hour to get out from being dropped off. Getting in is a little quicker.
Religious flamewar is not allowed on Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it—regardless of how provocative you found another comment.
Edit: we've asked you at least half a dozen times to stop posting uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. Please re-read the guidelines and take the spirit of this site to heart when commenting.
what is not substantive about raising awareness regarding the genocide that is underway in Palestine? Trying to silence this makes you complicit in the abuses occurring there.
The problem with replying properly to a comment like this is that it would take me perhaps an hour to put the pieces of the reply together and perhaps another half an hour to go over it to make sure most readers will get what I mean. The more inflammatory the topic, the more critical it is to avoid misunderstandings.
It's not that I don't think the question matters or that I don't care or don't want to reply properly—especially to such a horrible accusation as justifying genocide. It's that I literally—in the general case—can't. Even 5 of me couldn't.
So I'll just say that your comment broke this guideline, among others: "Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." The only thing that posts like "gotta be careful, might get bombed by the israeli's" and "what a slimy little weasel he is" do is rile people up and make this site worse. So you can't post like that here.
Happy to answer any questions not addressed on the site.
[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11858963