> The reason why I bought a Pixel from Google directly is because I do not like the adware and bloatware that comes pre-installed on phones from other carriers.
Bloatware mandated by google on all android phones:
1. Google+
2. Google Duo
3. Google hangout
4. Gmail
5. Google play music
6. Google play games
7. Google play movies
8. Google play newsstand
9. Google drive
10. Google sheets
11. Google chrome
12. Google maps
13. Google assistant
14. Google app
15. Google photos
16. Youtube
Seems like the author made a decision diametrically opposite to his desire. I literally use 4 of these 16 pre-installed apps. Keep in mind that these are non-removable too. You can disable them, but they will forever sit in the flash storage you paid for.
Microsoft caught flack not merely for including IE, but also for requiring OEMs like Dell to set IE as the default browser. Google deserves the same flack for e.g. their requirement that OEMs set Google Search as the default search engine.
AOSP does not include all these apps. Google says if you want to install play store on your device, you must also install all these apps. I think it's exactly the same as Microsoft's behavior with IE.
The key difference is the OEM license agreements. Google includes dubious requirements in their licensing terms, such as the anti-fragmentation clause. But Apple does not license their software to OEMs, and so cannot run afoul of antitrust IP licensing issues.
They have a duopoly [1]. The linked article explains what a duopoly is, and cites relevant examples. I can tell you of another very relevant US-centric example but its not in business: Republican and democrat.
The impact a duopoly has on a market is vastly different from a monopoly. One problem could be price fixing; but that could happen with more than 2 companies as well. Then we speak of a cartel.
The problem with a monopoly isn't per se that it exists; it becomes anti competitive business practices when the monopoly is abused to exercise control over other markets. I'd like to compare it with a benign tumor which ends up spreading.
The silliest part of this is that Google phones specifically do not have removable storage so you're forced to use a cloud service, most likely Google's, for extra storage. Before the removal of the headphone jack this was one of my main reasons for avoiding the Nexus/Pixel line.
There was once a time when the iPod was still a thing where I could carry around my entire music collection that was larger than that. Now that space needs to be shared with pictures, bloated apps, and video. 128gb is not much space at all if you actually try to use it and don't want to waste your time playing inventory manager.
I have 64 GB with the internal storage + the SD card and I constantly have "no space left on device" popups. It's surprising how fast you can fill that with the music and the photos and videos.
Are we blaming phone manufacturers for putting new technologies in phones now?
Also to be honest at least on android phones you can use various solutions, like plugging into your pc. On iPhone you’re essentially stuck with iCloud or iTunes.
No, the above comment is specifically referring to the idea that 64 GB or 128 GB is enough when a heavily advertised and useful function of modern phones is 4k video, which uses a lot of space, making 64 GB/128 GB last not nearly as long. It's not blaming them for anything, just stating that internal only memory when modern features easily use more space than is included may not be sufficient.
> at least on android phones you can use various solutions, like plugging into your pc. On iPhone you’re essentially stuck with iCloud or iTunes.
I know what you're hinting at (taking a stab at iTunes), but this is still the same thing. You plug the phone into a computer and offload the data, with the difference being the required software.
The idevicebackup2 command lets you do encrypted backups and restores.
The ifuse command lets you mount the iPhone as a fuse fs, which is super super handy because the photo folder names are APPLE100,APPLE101,etc and don't change, unlike the folder names that get generated when you plug in the iPhone normally :)
Really great software, made backing up my stuff a breeze.
It might seem like that now but if you're travelling and don't have internet access or you live in an area with poor cell reception, storage starts to look extra important.
Plus, it might be a lot now but how about in 5-10 years? Sure most people will have upgraded their phones in that time but it'd be nice not to have to.
A handful of games, a few video recordings and a reasonable chunk of music so you don't continually have to curate your own listening - and bam - it's gone.
I want my SD card slot (I also want removable batteries again but apparently I'm not allowed those either. Thank god for fast charging)
> do not have removable storage so you're forced to use a cloud service
Photos are probably non-issue. There are many options - I basically feel that almost every single app that has anything to do with sync or storage offers to upload photos. That is, including many self-hosted options or cloud storage that promises client-side encryption with keys not known to the service.
What I haven't found is alternative backup transport. There is Google's default one (com.google.android.backup) that sends everything to Google Drive (no encryption!), local debug transport (com.android.internal.backup) that just dumps data locally and... as far as I know, nothing else.
I remember it changed at some point. On my ancient Moto G I can't remove Games, Google+, Newsstand, or Hangouts for example. I don't have Duo or Assistant installed and have others like Books and Movies & TV that I can't remove. I use Sheets all the time, it's the only one of that list I'd keep. And checking, I actually had to install that one manually.
I've tried to not include apps that have to be manually installed, eg, Allo. But do you think I've included any of those here? Which ones? I remember having to disable all these as soon as I bought my phone.
>You can disable them, but they will forever sit in the flash storage you paid for.
That's true, but preinstalled apps sit on the /system partition, which is a separate partition from where your data is stored. The size is fixed so having it there or not doesn't affect how much data you can store.
To be fair to the author, the only other option (iPhone) doesn't even let you disable the bloatware or replace it with better alternatives. Recent Android phones (including the author's) install most of the bloatware from the Play Store on first use instead of storing them in the system partition with the OS, so you actually can remove them.
You can "delete" many default apps on recent versions of iOS. (It doesn't actually delete them, it just hides them — the same as disabling an app on Android).
I don't think that document is entirely accurate. The apps "re-download" immediately, suggesting (to me at least) that they are still on-disk, somewhere. I believe that they delete associated user-data, though.
EDIT: Apparently things are different in iOS 11? Huh. TIL —
will have to try it out!
"One note on removing pre-installed apps: Don't do this if you need to free up some storage space on your iPhone or iPad. Because stock apps are part of the system bundle — some of them are deeply integrated with Siri, in fact — when you delete them, they aren't actually removed — they're just being hidden from the home screen."
Notably missing from the list of disableable apps: Safari and (for the author) Photos.
1) You can disable and remove them. If you do not use them, and plan on not using them, do disable them. Example: I use Firefox, not Chrome. I don't have Chrome installed (I do have Webview installed, obviously). Example: I use Spotify, not Google Play Music. I disabled that instead.
2) You can install Android without GApps (and even with microG). For example LineageOS. You can even decide to use minimal GApps such as the nano variant.
Yes, but not everything. Everything mentioned in the list of GP, yes. However something like GCM or Google Play, no. That's why you decide when you're flashing say LineageOS whether you want GApps yes or no.
I'd also like to note that disabling them does save up space. Not sure its all completely removed though. From memory, it reverts to an old version which was bundled with that Android version. On old phones, such space can be vital. Especially if you don't have microSD or pref not to use it.
I had the very problem yesterday evening, so in case you did not figure it out:
To disable the Google feed if the disable toggle disappeared just clear the App data of the Google app to make it reappear.
To disable the Google feed if the disable toggle is present but has no effect anymore you can log out of the Google app by deselecting your Google account in the "search" settings menu.
I'd spend hundreds to avoid any kind of feed in my os.
It doesn't work for me. It is so frustrating. I live in Catalonia (Spain) and politics has been so intense here these last months that I want the right to disconnect from politics, but I can't, because I can't disable the news cards in Google Now.
If there's a cliff, and the area has warning signs saying "cliff ahead, if you go ahead you will fall off and die." And if someone walks over the cliff, why wouldn't you blame the user?
Why does it feel like every choice for a phone is a losing choice nowadays:
- "Pure" Android from Google (Pixels and co): You end up being controlled by Google and enclosed in their ecosystem. They manage and decide the ToS for everything and you have very little say about it (as this issue proves).
- "Modified" Android from other manufacturers: Full of bloatwares and basically unusable after 6 months
- iPhone: Closed source and managed by Apple. Not a lot of technical options to customize if you don't like the default behavior (An issue I have with every Apple product).
For a non technical person, as a comment said above the iPhone is the best ethical solution. You get what you pay for and there are no shenanigans.
As a technical user however, I feel it is kind of sad to own an iPhone as I like to go deep and being able to modify a lot of settings and behaviors. I simply don't like the overly opinionated way iOS or MacOS handles the user (Which again would be fine for 99% of normal users).
For a technical person, you have another choice: LineageOS (optionally with microG, which is what I use). It's nearly-stock Android without the Google apps, and with a few extra features. (Privacy Guard is very nice.)
microG lets you use apps that depend on Play Services without actually having Play Services - it's not complete but most of the common APIs are there.
There are other ROMs, but LineageOS (formerly CyanogenMod) is the only one I personally have experience with.
I love LineageOS, but using it still doesn't prevent OS-level privacy/attack vectors like the recent "report cell tower location despite location services being off" mishap/invasion. (1)
Yes, Android is open source, but at the end of the day Google is the dominant contributor, so you're still subject to their will... (just like Chromium)
Just curious how is performance and how old is the phone you are using with it? My biggest issue with android phones, even the google flagship ones is they just fall apart after 18 months both physically and with software overwhelming them to the point of extreme lags in every interaction with the device.
Does the same dividend exist here as on desktop where it’s pretty expected to be able to run a 10 year old pc by running Linux on it without much issue?
I personally use Lineage on a Samsung Galaxy S5 and love it. It's far better than the stock roms. It offers access to newer OS versions (currently Nougat) and quicker access to security patches. Better battery life, a cleaner less bloated experience, and options for tweaking settings to your liking. There are some downsides though. Mainly reduced camera performance.
It runs great on older phones. I have a 3 year old Moto G with 1GiB RAM. It will never be a speed demon but LineageOS Nougat is much better than stock Lollipop for performance on resource constrained phones.
The only closed source stuff is device-specific hardware drivers.
Also, Android the platform is more open than iOS, you can build and install any APK you like and even root your device if you want. iOS restricts you to the app store.
There are so many apps that abuse notifications. I often find that I have to turn a new app's notifications off after installing it.
For example, the Kindle app (on iOS) keeps bugging me about random things that are basically ads for Kindle. The Etsy app does the same. I recently installed the AliExpress app, and it started sending me notifications daily about deals ("Still looking for wigs? Look what we found, just for you!" -- just because I was entertaining myself the other day by browsing through all the crazy crap that AliExpress sells, it now thinks I want a wig).
Apple (and Google, presumably) really should penalize app creators for abusing notifications.
Targeted ads are basically homeopathic medicine in a different market:
They take a small group of people with money who don't care about the shit you sell and honestly resent seeing your beef jerky ad when trying to buy a couch, dilute it with a bunch of people who once Googled "beef jerky" to figure out that one brand or make a funny meme so as to neutralize statistical qualities about the cohort you might not like, and pretend it'll do something for your business besides act like a sinkhole for your money.
But I've slowly come to think most business statistics are deeply flawed, but now we're trapped using them because there was an upward slope to the cliff and people are dumb. Even if you point out that their flawed number models caused their businesses to collapse over and over for no reason but poor optimization, most people just hear "made money for a while".
Google is a terrible offender too. I'm on the Android Beta channel, and they recently updated my Google Now. Turns out that they decided that every score in a basketball game was worthy of a vibration. Also that that my commute to work was 30 minutes... on a Saturday. And that the weather was 40 degrees. And that I was near a business. Had to go in and turn each of them off individually. None of that was wanted, just show me the passive notification and I'll get to it when I open my drawer. Let me know I CAN turn them on when I open it for the first time, but don't assume I want that.
IIRC the Apple App Store even prohibits these kinds of notifications, but because the store has no button to report apps you can't do anything about it as user :/
At least Aliexpress has notification settings, you can leave just messages notifications or disable them completely. With Photos there are no refined notification settings.
You can obviously disable all notifications of an app in Android itself but it cripples an app if some of those notifications are actually useful.
The CVS app advertises via notification to me every time I step in or next to CVS. Creeped me out to the point of uninstalling. Now I disable notifications for everything but email and messaging apps.
I also received this notification. I have an S8, not a Pixel.
This is the kind of marketing spam done by crapware apps. Should we also expect this from Google now? I've come across too many nontechnical user's phones with hundreds of spam push notifications to have any patience for this crap.
I don't know when this trend started but I noticed I started getting texts from facebook as well about 6 months ago. I haven't been on the platform for over 3 years and never specifically remember authorizing them to text me.
There is, as of me writing this, only one reply to the original post in support of its complaint — mine. Perhaps those willing to post comments here should consider also posting them there.
I've used a firewall on my phone: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.greyshirts... The firewall is brilliant in that it sets up a 'VPN', that all connections must go through. Bam, no more notifications from any shitty apps that got a request from a marketer to annoy you. However, it won't help with the apps that you have a love/hate relationship with (ie Viber).
You will be SHOCKED at how many apps insist on a connection to the internet despite not apparently needing a connection. I even had apps I never use, still try to call home!
On a sidenote, I love how the app also gives Wifi or Mobile Data option. ie, prohibited updates unless over WiFi.
You mean like Google Hangouts used to be, before they butchered it? I'm still mad about that - it actually was the reason I bought my first iPhone. I no longer have a messaging system that does everything on Android, so I switched ecosystems for iMessage.
I liked the Growl notification customizations on the Mac, where every possible notification type for an app was listed. That’s how it should be; then you know everything that the app can possibly send. You could make broad preferences where desired, and granular settings as needed.
I hate that installing new apps enables every stupid notification by default, seemingly only fixable by going 3 levels deep into every app’s settings and disabling things. Designers talk about the importance of having good defaults, and notifications have really, really stupid defaults coupled with bad UI for fixing them.
Android took a big step in this direction in Oreo, with a built-in central manager of the permission and notification settings of every app on the system :)
Android 7 has that too, under the "permissions" setting for apps. It's a "I don't want any notification" or "I want all of them". Are those settings in oreo better?
Yes in Oreo every notification belongs to a named "channel" and you can customize by channel. So for example saying yes to new messages and no to promotions.
I have been looking around for my next phone, most likely android. The thing I've come to realise is that I'm no longer able to buy an Android phone, instead I am buying either a Google phone or Samsung phone. Even the "pure" android experience is really a Google experience.
Since I will be in the market to replace my aging phone sooner rather than later, the phones I've been eyeing are
HTC U11 Unlocked
Essential Phone
OnePlus 5T
Google Pixel 2 (not the XL to avoid screen issues, it's mfg'd by HTC and similar to the HTC U11)
This list is US centric, etc.
I would consider the iPhone 8, but not the X personally.
Just listened to interview on All About Android and their explanation sounded plausible that it was done wrong and they will delete any collected data. I just bought a 5T and did not hear about this so I'm interested. Sounded like they are removing in OTA update. I'd probably have switched to iPhone if Apple didn't lock development to their OS.
Yeah it seems odd to me that the pixel is lauded as a "Pure Android" experience, as though that means a clean slate, when it is really a bunch of Google apps. And it's a bit befuddling how Microsoft couldn't even include a browser in their OS without massive lawsuits a few years ago.
I can't edit the post any more, but it looks like OnePlus should be stricken from this list above, as trendia pointed out. Additionally they don't have a great track record of OS updates.
This. I pay Apple money and they give me stuff. A very simple transaction. I don't get spammed constantly, I don't have third party crapware on my phones or computers and I don't have stickers all over my stuff that makes my electronics look like a NASCAR car.
I thought so too, and in case of Apple I still too.
But I got bitterly disappointed by Microsoft, I pay them for Windows and Office, a very simple transaction, right? Guess what, Windows 10 not only displays ads in the startmenu and taskbar. Also it automatically installs Pay2Win gambling games littered with loot crates to the startmenu. Also it tries to upgrade itself whenever it wants (in the middle of gaming, during boot, during shutting down) and not just updates but re-installs a new copy of the whole OS in-place, loosing all customization settings. Also it collects all my keyboard inputs, all my microphone audio and webcam video, my usage patterns, my directory structure, my crashed application incl all related files, the running application list, and sends them encrypted to various cloud servers own by them or third parties (who can tell?).
I thought it is a very simple transaction, but I figured out when a company gets greedy and evil, you cannot trust such a company any more. It's better part ways and to revert back to an older version (Win 7) and prepare to move to a competitor.
>I pay them for Windows and Office, a very simple transaction, right?
No, it's not, and hasn't been for a while. Office added a subscription model a few years back (obviously it's the one they are pushing), and after that stunt that MS pulled with 10 launch you might as well consider it a targeted ad platform.
Let's speak about Windows 10 and Office 2016, I have bought them, a very simple transaction. Everything I mentioned still holds. I regreted doing so. I am in the club who reverted back to good ol Win7 and Office 2010.
Yes but I also have to necessarily buy into the Apple ecosystem and pay a lot of money compared to Android, which I can just root and remove all this crap more easily than on Apple devices.
I also don't really trust Apple to keep my data secure, I'm sure they have plenty of security measures, but I feel safer putting my data on my own servers via Nextcloud and stuff.
I also don't really trust Apple to keep my data secure, I'm sure they have plenty of security measures, but I feel safer putting my data on my own servers via Nextcloud and stuff.
So why do you think that your servers using third party software is more secure than Apple's? Have you personally audited every line of code in NextClouds software or every line of code in Android for security vulnerabilities?
Depends on your perspective. The reason these other products are “cheap” is because you’re making up for the dollar cost with your psychological well-being and being advertised to by the world’s best psychologists and cognitive scientists. So an iPhone or whatever may be “expensive” but I’d submit it’s actually cheaper when you take other factors into account.
And you can trust Apple with your data at least as much as any other provider if not more since they have a financial motivation to protect your privacy (it’s a feature).
Now I think rooting your device and hosting your own servers are a good solution - but most people, even engineers such as myself - may not want to spend time doing that or deal with security concerns from rooting your device.
>So an iPhone or whatever may be “expensive” but I’d submit it’s actually cheaper when you take other factors into account.
I keep track of my expenses and so far I have paid less for the 3 Smartphones I owned than I would have paid to own any 3 iPhones with comparable age at time of the buy.
>And you can trust Apple with your data at least as much as any other provider if not more since they have a financial motivation to protect your privacy (it’s a feature).
I trust OVH more than Apple since I pay for a dedicated server every month instead of paying Apple once.
>Now I think rooting your device and hosting your own servers are a good solution - but most people, even engineers such as myself - may not want to spend time doing that or deal with security concerns from rooting your device.
Which is why I stated that this is why I don't trust Apple.
It's funny that you say this because and anecdotally, it seems like Macbook users are the most likely to plaster their machines with stickers. Totally unscientific and possibly incorrect observation though.
The App Store has ads now. Not quite as bad as push notifications, but it makes me uncomfortable considering it’s the only supported way to install software.
A ToS is a contract between a service provider and a user, Google doesn't need to agree to that contract to use its own services, I don't even know if it makes any sense legally. Of course ethically one would like the same rules to apply to everyone.
Is a violation with the Play Store ToS really necessary for Google to be allowed to throw you out? Last year, they did a witchhunt on third-party YouTube-apps capable of background playback on the basis of those supposedly violating the YouTube ToS, not the Play Store ToS.
the play store developer agreement says your app can't violate anybody else's ToS. A violation of the youtube ToS is an implicit violation of the Play Store ToS. Violating Facebook or Twitter's terms will get you kicked off the play store too.
"4.4 Prohibited Actions. You agree that you will not engage in any activity with Google Play, including the development or distribution of Products, that interferes with, disrupts, damages, or accesses in an unauthorized manner the devices, servers, networks, or other properties or services of any third party including, but not limited to, Android users, Google or any mobile network operator."
Would it be considered an ad if instead it just said 'hey new thing now you can create and print photo books right in the app!' without mentioning price?
Yes, because it still wants your money. Saying "Now app X has a feature to do Y" is fine, but when it requires additional purchases to "do Y", it is an ad. If Hacker News would display "did you know you can subscribe to read grahamburgers next reply", but I have to pay before I can read, it is an ad.
The philosophical question that arises from here, now, is that if someone really cared about that offer to be introduced through the app (like a new feature notification), would it still be called an 'advertisement'? But then, to know whether you "care about" this feature to be introduced in the app so that it wouldn't be an advertisement, they'd need to track what you care about and what you don't. But people have issues with tracking :). Not supporting or opposing anything here, just thinking aloud.
He mentioned this in the letter as being overkill. He is asking for a preference to disable the notifications that a reasonable person would consider advertising, so that (e.g.) he can continue to get notifications about friends photo albums.
Bloatware mandated by google on all android phones:
1. Google+
2. Google Duo
3. Google hangout
4. Gmail
5. Google play music
6. Google play games
7. Google play movies
8. Google play newsstand
9. Google drive
10. Google sheets
11. Google chrome
12. Google maps
13. Google assistant
14. Google app
15. Google photos
16. Youtube
Seems like the author made a decision diametrically opposite to his desire. I literally use 4 of these 16 pre-installed apps. Keep in mind that these are non-removable too. You can disable them, but they will forever sit in the flash storage you paid for.