In Mario Kari Wii (which I played way too competitively back in 2010) the blue shell is not at all an issue if you play to win. If the other players fail to catch on, its existence can only help.
First, learn all the shortcuts in the game. Some of them are quite good and they're all online. Then:
For all but the last lap your job is to stop anyone from getting far ahead and to lay back in about 8th place. Cycle through boxes (just use them) until you get a star, ideally. Hold on to that as you enter the final lap.
Half-ish way through the final lap, while still in a far back position (5th to 8th), use the star right before you pick up your next box. Since you picked it up while in a poor position, it will be something good like another star or a golden mushroom.
Thanks to the rubber-banding (such as the blue shell!), first place won't be very far ahead, and the star should advance you to near first, if not first.
When a blue shell comes at you, you will have the ability to dodge it with the mushroom or invalidate it with the star in your inventory. Or just use your 5-8th place powerup in 1st or 2nd if no blue shell is coming and it will last you to the end anyway.
Proceed to victory.
Point being: If a gameplay mechanics are not fair, don't worry about them, just think about how they can be worked to your advantage. 99% of players think of the blue shell, but its a canard. Very few think of the powerup hoisting, but that's whats going to win you the game.
The final act is your friends complaining that you always seem to win and are unaffected by the blue shell. Here again it works for you as a punching bag of plausible deniability. Yes, the unfair and random blue shell is why you always seem to win...
They changed the nature of powerup probability distributions to be based on distance from first, rather than position in race. It's now entirely possible to get a blue shell in 2nd if the person in 1st is half a lap ahead of everyone else. Your point still stands, but you need to maintain a large distance from 1st which A) is much harder to tell what distance threshold you're at and B) is usually too far to recover in 1-2 powerups.
I much prefer the new system, most ranked games of mario kart tend to involve the majority of people in a large group using the weaker, more skillful items to pull ahead. If any one person pulls too far ahead of the group for any reason then the entire group suddenly gets a huge shift in powerup strength to close the gap again.
That's interesting, do you have a source re: position versus distance from 1st for item distribution? That invalidates a swath of my blue shell analysis downthread.
Mario Kart Wii seemed to take rubber-banding way too far in general.
Mario Kart 8 feels way more balanced in that sense. You don't need to deliberately hang back until the last lap anymore, and the distribution of items feels much more reasonable.
Does this ever devolve into something similar to bicycle with everyone going slow to avoid being first at the start and then doing a mad dash right at the end?
Not exactly, since 4 out of 8 players are usually AIs, but yeah if everyone "figures it out" it does feel more like cycling. Sometimes someone tries to totally break ahead one lap in advance with the hope that the gap will simply be too big, even with a shell, which is kinda analogous to an "attack" in cycling.
I'm not a bicyclist; what is this strategy and why is it used? You can't aggressively impact another player's performance in bicycling as you can in Mario Kart, right? So what is the benefit?
Is it as simple as conserving effort to just match pace until you see who around you needs to be outpaced, or is there something more complex here?
Also not a cyclist, but [1] is a good (and slightly comical) view of this technique.
In Sprint cycling, which is just three laps, it was found to be a good technique to stay behind the lead rider, because you have the advantage of surprise, and can draft[2] in the last lap, passing them at the last second.
This strategy evolved, and then you end up with two bicyclists jockeying for last place, with bicycles nearly standing still.
I'm also not a bicycle racer, but as I understand it the problem with being in first is that you have to do all the work to get the air out of your way.
Yes, if you learn the strategy above and want to play to win you can do this. But, I think the problem really exists in the Experience for Casual players. Unfortunately that would impact people that aren't Casuals so its really a trade off.
The blue shell is maximally frustrating because it doesn't help the user. Because of the item skewing, it's basically never a person in the front half of the race who gets it, and so they can't hope to gain places by using it. It's not a catch-up item, it's a 'penalize the person in first' item. This just causes kingmaker situations, which is generally poor game design, even in a casual setting.
This is part of why I think Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Transformed is much better than any of the Mario Kart games. Transformed's blue shell equivalent is the Swarm, which causes a large number of bees (more or less the same as MK's banana peels) to spawn directly in front of the player currently in first place.
A skilled player can avoid all the bees in the swarm, either through the use of items or by steering around, often at the cost of breaking a drift chain (players should be drifting at almost all times in Transformed).
Since the bees spawn in front of first place, they have the least time to react and thus they are most likely to get hit. Every player needs to drive through the bees, but as players collide with the bees there will be less left for those near last place. The swarm brings all players closer together, instead of just hindering the 1st/2nd place driver.
I agree with your analysis but disagree with your conclusion. In my opinion (very casual/occasional gamer, have played multiple iterations of Mario Kart), the blue shell is designed to be an agent of chaos. More generally, the game itself appears to optimize for position churn and unpredictability instead of a consistency that can be gamed by skill. Under the paradigm that Mario Kart endorses, the blue shell appears to me to be very well designed and essentially accomplishes its goal.
From what I can tell the developers have always wanted to maximize the amount of chaos in order reduce the modal player's ability to consistently win. From that perspective it seems designed specifically to avoid kingmaking; the only way I've seen kingmaking work in effect is by having a confederate in second place who passively avoids aggression against first place and absorbs aggression from other places (items). The blue shell is arguably the most important item for eliminating a "first place moat", and under this interpretation it makes sense that you'd never get it in second place (which would only help second place, but no one else, and which could allow even more egregious kingmaking, because the second place user could threaten a "nuclear option" for all who pass).
Moreover, in the latest iteration the blue shell slides across the ground, which means it can harm second and third place as well. Confederates attempting to absorb items to shield first place are no longer capable of doing so without a horn. From a (literal) game theoretic perspective, the confederates no longer have an incentive to shield first place when a blue shell is coming, because they have nothing to gain (the item will still proceed) but much to lose (they will still be harmed). It's more rational to avoid it, in which case at least they can attempt to advance their own position. This further contributes to churn rather than consolidation.
So it's actually a fairly complex mechanic. It can be used to eliminate a first place moat directly, but it also undermines concentration of power in the second and third place confederates because they have no rational reason to aid first place when one is coming. And this is in addition to the fact that the blue shell can also harm the mid-race participants in fourth through n place, where n is the blue shell user. You really wouldn't want the blue shell to be used in the front-race, because it would not meaningfully disrupt the state of racers behind the user. In further contrast, it could also be misused by anyone who has possession of it as a tactic for disallowing people from passing them. If the blue shell were not given to back-race participants, there would be no way to attack first (and now even second) place when the participants are too busy fighting with each other and defending themselves to advance.
This is not to say that Mario Kart is not a game devoid of skill; you'll still see people who regularly win. But it does seem to prevent people from being able to e.g. get a good start and stay in first place through sheer inertia, by virtue of being away from the rest of the race's chaos. The chaos can be brought to any position with a blue shell, just like it can with the lightning bolt or (in the most recent iteration) the Boo items. I think it would interesting to run simulations on race results using computer players with various combinations of items to see how consistency and position churn change overall. It's my hypothesis that the game is actually more meritocratic this way, because it takes more skill to resist the entropy.
I think it was Double Dash where it was most apparent that well timed powerslides and boosts would let you avoid the Blue Shell and I think more effort should be put into this balance of being able to avoid it sometimes. I know that when I was younger and we'd meet on the weekends to play, it was always a riot when someone dodged the shell. To me this seems like the right engagement -- you hear the shell and instead of just bracing for the inevitable you try to position to dodge it. It also makes the use of the shell require a bit more thinking, since you want to avoid putting 1st place in a situation where it's easy to dodge.
You have (as of Mario Kart 8) three different ways to nullify an incoming blue shell, the easiest being to get hold of a mushroom.
If you can't get a mushroom because you're hanging a green shell or a banana out the back of your kart, you kind of have it coming, too. You know what you did wasn't big or clever, don't cry about it now.
When viewing things from the lens of MK as a party game, I can think of no better aspect of MK than the blue shell. Everyone's racing and having a good time and then you hear the blue shell sound. All of a sudden everyone is laughing, swearing and having a great time.
It's quite easy to do two mode of game with or without or without box at all, this powerup item are not well distributed and shall be removed. You need to be a kid to accept this none fair system, I just don't accept it anymore.
> The blue shell is only annoying for try-hard ultra-competitive weenies
Nah, the ultra-competitive weenies know there is a glitch such that if you mushroom the instant before the blue shell hits you, you can escape it (at least on the Wii version of the game).
Hmm, there is a competitive MK scene, though. It's nothing compared to, say, Smash, but then racing in general is not an eSport with the level of exposure/prestige as strategy, FPS, or fighting games, it seems.
Exactly, this game require no skill for winning, and player not balanced, with the blue shell it's even easier for none skilled, btw I always win, I don't care.
Fox may be considered the best character, but I've seen Capt. Falcon, Marth, Shiek, Peach at Evo this year.
> Final Destination
Kirby's Dreamland, Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, and Pokemon Stadium are all valid tournament stages, among others.
The only "truth" to the meme with regards to the strictest of Evo matches is "no items". Because becoming INVINCIBLE for a set period of time, or automatically gaining back 100% of your life completely breaks the game. And no one seems to be able to differentiate between "fair" and "unfair" items.
--------
> "No items, Fox only, Final Destination"
This mentality simply doesn't exist anywhere. The most competitive of Smash Melee players have a set of rules that are far more intricate.
I swear, it's just like in the old days of Counterstrike, where every weenie would go "no AWP! And no camping!", and storm off in a huff if you played the game as it was made.
Clearly it doesn't kill the fun for the people that play that way (and I know you're expressing a meme, but competitive smash is much more than fox only, FD).
What kills fun are people who want to play a game together but have entirely different expectations and are unwilling to try it the other way.
People who prefer their racing games more competitive wish that the most popular racing game was more competitive - but the reason Mario Kart is more popular than the serious simulation-type racing games is precisely because it's less competitive than those games.
Wishing other people liked the games you like is reasonable (though futile), but wishing the games other people like were more like the games you like is putting the cart before the horse.
It's a balancer item. It exclusively affects the leading player.
What's wrong with it is it's arbitrary (you can't really help it), it punishes good behavior (winning) but especially: it's too powerful!
Its balancing effect could be spread over a couple of other items. Certain items could receive a penalty if you're leading. The odds of picking just the right item up could be affected.
What's great about OP items like this is the amount of spectacular saves it creates. An expert player is already married to the game anyway, why care? It's only him that suffers. The rest has a very memorable stolen victory.
I think they already do in a way. The guy in first place never gets things like bullet bills or stars, but a ton of bananas and green shells. It wouldn't surprise me to learn there's a gradient.
There are several items in MK8 that will save you from a blue shell. How is it too powerful? And spreading the "balancing effect" over several items effectively eliminates that effect. How often does someone use multiple items simultaneously?
People (and nerds in particular) have a major cringe-inducing tendency to turn everything into a competition or even a lifestyle, and they forget to actually have fun.
Well, you're calling people who like to compete in MK weenies and nerds, say they're cringe inducing, and that something you don't like "kills fun". At the risk of being a weenie-nerd for giving a shit about post standards, this is not Hacker News quality.
What the previous comment was trying to say, in less than ideal manners, is that they are not exclusive.
You can have a lot of enjoyment playing competitive chess, or No-items-Fox-Only smash.
Being very competitive doesn't mean you don't play for fun, and doesn't have to kill fun. Being judgmental of what other people like, I think, does a little.
First, learn all the shortcuts in the game. Some of them are quite good and they're all online. Then:
For all but the last lap your job is to stop anyone from getting far ahead and to lay back in about 8th place. Cycle through boxes (just use them) until you get a star, ideally. Hold on to that as you enter the final lap.
Half-ish way through the final lap, while still in a far back position (5th to 8th), use the star right before you pick up your next box. Since you picked it up while in a poor position, it will be something good like another star or a golden mushroom.
Thanks to the rubber-banding (such as the blue shell!), first place won't be very far ahead, and the star should advance you to near first, if not first.
When a blue shell comes at you, you will have the ability to dodge it with the mushroom or invalidate it with the star in your inventory. Or just use your 5-8th place powerup in 1st or 2nd if no blue shell is coming and it will last you to the end anyway.
Proceed to victory.
Point being: If a gameplay mechanics are not fair, don't worry about them, just think about how they can be worked to your advantage. 99% of players think of the blue shell, but its a canard. Very few think of the powerup hoisting, but that's whats going to win you the game.
The final act is your friends complaining that you always seem to win and are unaffected by the blue shell. Here again it works for you as a punching bag of plausible deniability. Yes, the unfair and random blue shell is why you always seem to win...