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Hopefully technology (robotics + machine learning) will improve this a lot in the future. Rather than needing to keep dairy cows in a shed they could graze, and some robotic contraption could roam the field milking them, etc.

It's also worth mentioning that these are probably the better food operations out there (most wouldn't allow cameras).

Agriculture is ugly, and always will be.



>Agriculture is ugly, and always will be.

Wrong! Agriculture is a low profit business. If you're cruel to animals or take shortcuts you will go broke. I used to work with farmers as a fertilizer guy and I've seen it all the time.

First off most of these truly are family farms. It may not look that way but because of the high degree of automation available a single family with a couple of employees can farm thousands of acres or milk thousands of cows.

The outstanding farms care about their employees and their livestock. I knew one farm where every one of 1500 cows had a name. Not USX1102 but NancyJo or William. Every profession has outliers. Usually when you see a documentary it's that exceptionally bad farm.

I've been on hundreds of pig, cattle and dairy farms and you're seeing the exceptions in those documentaries. It's sad but it drives city dwellers to get entirely the wrong impression of today's farmers.


Brings a new meaning to "treat your servers like cattle, not pets"


> most wouldn't allow cameras

Because farmers are concerned that reporters are out to portray their operations as more inhumane or less safe than they really are. For example, nursing sows are kept in very small cages so they can't roll over and kill their piglets, but farmers know that most journalists would only see (and thus talk about) the claustrophobic quarters.

> Agriculture is ugly, and always will be.

I grew up on a farm; while there's certainly room for improvement, most farming operations are very humane. I can't speak to the extreme "big ag" end of the spectrum, but family farms--even large ones--tend to treat their animals well.


> I can't speak to the extreme "big ag" end of the spectrum, but family farms--even large ones--tend to treat their animals well.

This totally misses the point. Big Ag is where most of the supply comes from (and with demand, will continue to come from), therefor the practices in those environments should be the focus, not family farms. Focusing on the potential good does not in any way make the bad disappear. I just can't understand being ok with the proven, horrible conditions of large operations just because there are better examples out there.

We should be judging the state of things based on the worst examples, not based on the best...


Your whole post is a straw man. No one is saying you have to ignore the sins of big ag because there are good farms out there.


> so they can't roll over and kill their piglets

If you'll excuse an ignorant question, how did pigs ever survive before this practice? And is it necessarily "humane" just because it reduces one kind of risk?


Same as with any other animal - they have multiple offspring, so even if some of them die it's no big deal in nature. On a farm, you don't want even a single piglet to die that way, so you keep the sow in such position that it can't kill the piglets accidentally.


If it's not a big deal in nature, then it happens infrequently, yes? So the sows are kept in tiny pens (or pinned on their sides as in the photos in the article) to make reproduction a bit more efficient on the farm than in nature?

This was given as an example of something that looks more inhumane in pictures than it really is. The reason it looks inhumane is because one imagines the sow would prefer freedom of movement, as other living things do. The reason why it is done is certainly relevant, as is how long they are kept in that position, whether they ever appear to be in distress trying to move about, etc.

None of this is visible in a photo, and needs to be explained. However, I don't buy the argument that people have no right to see where their food comes from because they just wouldn't understand what they're seeing. A system where living things are raised for our benefit seems like a place where more transparency is called for, not less.


^ ding, ding, ding. Winner!


Assuming that the reason for the practice is correct, one explanation could be that the pigs that we raise for food are very different from the pigs that survived before that practice.


Domestic animals are stupid; they've been bred to be that way -- that's kind of what "domestication" is. Wild boar are dangerous animals. But in breeding out the aggressiveness, you lose a lot of useful traits as well.


The idea that you can't allow cameras because actual realistic video footage would be deceiving speaks of the delusion that exists in the food industry - "family farms" included. A reality where animals can regularly accidentaly kill their own offspring as a circumstance of how they are being kept is crazy and the idea that their movement should be restricted even more is truly insane.

Whenever I feel like having a Kebab I check Youtube for some food industry reality check and watch how these fairly intelligent animals are treated. Usually cures me of that need.


> The idea that you can't allow cameras because actual realistic video footage would be deceiving speaks of the delusion that exists in the food industry - "family farms" included.

How so?

> A reality where animals can regularly accidentaly kill their own offspring as a circumstance of how they are being kept is crazy and the idea that their movement should be restricted even more is truly insane.

There's nothing insane about this claim. This is a well-documented problem.


You can't be deceived by seeing the reality on video (unless edited to manipulate). People have the vague idea of a happy cow that's eventually being eaten after a happy fun life on the Meadows, seeing the reality is of course revolting.

Idea being that restricting movement for the animal is terrible - can you relate to how that pig feels?


Robotic contraption milking them? How about these milking robots on the farms all around me?

https://youtu.be/Aju_wqHhCBk


Pardon the language, but holy shit that is cool. If anybody is reading this and didn't click on that youtube link, click on it. This is seriously amazing.


They're becoming pretty commonplace. A friend runs a farm that uses them. The cows come in to be milked when they want to be, which averages about 2.2 times per day, they enjoy getting milked. A back scratching machine gives them a rub (which they love) and they stroll leisurely back to their paddock to eat more of their favourite thing; grass.

Staffing costs are much lower along with the subsequent disasters and animal problems caused by thoughtless staff. The cows are happier than ever and milk production is record-breaking.


Here's the back scratcher, made by the same people who do the self-service milking machine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9paVtU4NmQ

I remember seeing DeLaval say that the back scratcher is their most popular product --- among both humans and cows!

Their corporate website looks a bit threadbare (last update 2015), but their Youtube channel has recent videos; I hope they're doing all right, but their products look amazingly cool.


Because their products look cool. Stupid fingers.


That is really awesome to hear.


My parents installed their first milking robot about 12 years ago. They are now onto 2 more modern robots.

The first milking robot was manufactured in _1994_!


>Agriculture is ugly, and always will be.

Dairy farming has come a long way. Automated farms already exists where cows just wander into a shed at their leisure and are automatically milked.

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2013/s3863064.htm


the images already show us great amounts of automation (carrot cleaning and sorting, as well as the 12-person crew doing what took 40 people to harvest greens) and it's only going to get more automated. It's clear the days of manual laborers harvesting are coming to a close. Fewer and fewer people will be involved in growing and harvesting food.

One thing I wish is that they had Mitch Epstein do the commission ala American Power[1]. Not to knock Steinmetz, I just like how Epstein takes in a scene and presents it ambivalently great and obscene.

[1]http://mitchepstein.net/american-power


Hopefully technology (robotics + machine learning) will improve this a lot in the future. Rather than needing to keep dairy cows in a shed they could graze, and some robotic contraption could roam the field milking them, etc.

Already in production.[1] The cow's view of a competing robotic system.[2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hojnPpvI6-I [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Q1LoxK5mE




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