I agree. I enjoy developing the quickest route from a-z. I can write javascript. I know the dom, that its quicker to update one large dom container than it is to update many smaller elements. I have worked with and understand ajax, that rewriting a dom node before unbinding any events creates browser memory leaks causing it to eventually crash. I would not know these things if i had coded with the prescribed framework. If the argument for using them is to have team coding standards then have team coding standards. The framework creates its own problems.