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For Inventor of Eudora, Great Fame, No Fortune (1997) (nytimes.com)
79 points by percept on Nov 29, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 56 comments


He did just fine:

http://blog.fawny.org/2015/07/04/stevedorner/ "Qualcomm Contrary to rumour, Qualcomm, which had bought Eudora early on from the University of Illinois, had always treated him well, he says. (“I am very happy to correct that impression. I was not shafted by Qualcomm. Qualcomm did very well by me.” And actually, Steve worked for that company for over 20 years.) He doesn’t have to work anymore – “and that is a blessing – it’s a blessing, it really is. It’s nice not to have that pressure. On the other hand, I’ve been retired now for little more than a year, and I do look around and question why I’m not being productive.”"


My first job in tech was on an ISP helpdesk starting in 1999. The most common setup for our customers was: Windows 98 or 95, Internet Explorer and Outlook Express.

It became unofficial but conventional practice for most of the staff, that after you'd spent enough time trying to help a customer get Outlook Express working without success, to recommend they install Eudora.

It wasn't pretty, but it just worked.

Eudora was a perfect example of a product that did one thing but did it right.

Whilst Microsoft was building Windows, IE and OE to be deeply integrated with one-another, Eudora just sat there minding its own business, doing a really great job of handling your mail.

I still think about this now when building products.

It's so often tempting to think the answer to your product problem is to add more features or integrate it with some other app or system.

But I always have Eudora as a reminder of the value of doing just one thing but doing it really well.


Woz liked it, too:

“Wozniak was a Eudora user for the longest time,” Steve says. People gave Wozniak shit for it. He used Eudora, Steve says Woz replied, “because I can put anything on the damn toolbar.” Eudora could put any menu item with any modifier combination into a toolbar button. Now nothing else can or will. The message from today’s software, Steve says, is “You do that a lot? Too darned bad. Not gonna go on the toolbar.”


‘Anything’ included scripts. I used this heavily when I was moderating mailing lists — F5 Accept, F6 Reject.


Alas it happens all the time.

See Gary Kildall (MS-DOS originated from from his CP/M but he never saw a dime of royalty) and Phil Katz (PKZIP, note how the Zip file format uses "PK" as magic number).

I've always wondered if the bitterness of having lost their big occasion caused them to die prematurely, the former in a biker bar brawl and the latter of alcoholism at the age of 37.


> Alas it happens all the time.

In the field of computing, I think the greatest contribution to the world vs least fame & fortune goes to the inventor of the World Wide Web.

It's sad that outside of the computing world, Tim Berners-Lee is unknown. Asking your dentist, aunt, or barber about who they think invented the web leads to some amusing replies.

I've actually done this and after telling them about Berners-Lee, I found the following themes to be common:

(1) Incredulousness that it was one person. People either think it had to be a big company or that it somehow "evolved" into existence (you know, the way television or photography just kind of happened without any particular persons being involved /irony).

(2) Belief that he chose to not accept the money. That is, he could have made a fortune if he wanted to, but for unspecified reasons he didn't want the money. I've tried to explain that the web wouldn't have succeeded if he tried to charge for it (even assuming that CERN let him charge for it), but there's a popular belief that great work always gets rewarded unless one explicitly opts out of the reward.

AN ASIDE: I think that in all human endeavor, the record for greatest contribution to the world vs least fame & fortune, where the inventor is truly known, should go to Cai Lun (also spelt Ts'ai Lun), the inventor of paper. He's a real person and historically well-documented as the actual inventor of paper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cai_Lun


What's even more a shame is that many people in the computer industry don't respect TBL's invention and accomplishments either!

I'll borrow a phrase from Paul Graham and call it the "middlebrow critique" of the web. Typically people think the design is naive and inefficient -- they think it should involve a stateful protocol, a turing-complete VM, or be more "statically typed". They also tend to believe in "global truth" and neglect backward compatibility / graceful upgrades.

I've heard a variety of accomplished engineers -- including my coworkers at Google, whose riches were built on the web -- express these kinds of sentiments.

I think the real disconnect is that TBL thinks about people just as much as he thinks about computers. He thinks about the ecosystem -- the whole rather than the parts. The inventions and design principles were not an accident; you can read about them in his book "Weaving the Web".


The whole stateful/stateless choice isn't intuitive unless you've at least read discussions about a few protocol designs/implementations which made these choices. It isn't about intelligence.

No wait, I might be wrong here -- this ought to be obvious for people so young that they grew up doing web programming? Do educated developers really say that?

(I haven't followed the rfcs for quite a long time, so I probably do lots Dunning–Krugers myself now. :-) )

Edit: I remember when WWW took over from Gopher. I thought "Damn, a superior alternative that won't win because a first-come implementation already filled the niche." Then came Mosaic which could show pictures -- and WWW took over. I was happy and disgusted at the shallowness. :-)


One of my favorite Internet artifacts is Marc Andreessen's proposal for the IMG tag -- note he used all caps.

http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0182.ht...


Tim has received many, many honors. Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_honours_presented_t...

There was a large amount of right place/right time to what he did. It wouldn't have been possible without the Internet infrastructure. He didn't invent networking or hypertext.


All that's true, but it doesn't contradict the basic point: Tim Berners-Lee has one of the greatest contribution to least fame & fortune ratios in the field of computing.

> Tim has received many, many honors.

The average person uses the web all the time but has never heard of Tim Berners-Lee or any of the awards you mention. But they know who won the Oscar for a movie they watched for 90 minutes.

> There was a large amount of right place/right time to what he did.

That's also true of (for example) Bill Gates, but he made a massive fortune and is well-known by the public.

> He didn't invent networking or hypertext.

You can make that kind of comment about everything ever invented in human history. Everyone builds on top of something.


> The average person uses the web all the time but has never heard of Tim Berners-Lee

He was in the opening ceremony of the last olympics, right alongside the pop stars. I don't think any other computer scientist has ever been honoured in such a public, pop-culture way.


Working on an actual NeXTCube as well. Now that's attention to detail!

http://i.imgur.com/8KxqM.gif


And how did the presenters introduce him (at least on the US broadcast)? "I have no idea who this guy is."


> The average person uses the web all the time but has never heard of Tim Berners-Lee or any of the awards you mention. But they know who won the Oscar for a movie they watched for 90 minutes.

Then I ask: Does the typical user of a mobile phone know who invented the frequency hopping that is used in modern mobile network standards (hint: it was an actress): https://goo.gl/fVYYbY

The same could be said of about lots of other major technical inventions.



Engelbart demoed hypertext in the 60s. There are many underappreciated people in history, but TBL is not one of them.


>Incredulousness that it was one person. People either think it had to be a big company or that it somehow "evolved" into existence

I think this is just because most people don't understand what the "world wide web" is. They think it's synonymous with "internet", and so are understandably incredulous.


> In the field of computing, I think the greatest contribution to the world vs least fame & fortune goes to the inventor of the World Wide Web.

See also Clifford Cocks.


    > Gary Kildall
"Selling DRI to Novell had made Kildall a wealthy man, and he moved to the West Lake Hills suburb of Austin. His Austin house was a lakeside property, with stalls for several sports cars, plus a video studio in the basement. Kildall owned and flew his own Learjet private jet airplane and had at least one boat on the lake."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall

Gary was bitter about Bill Gates getting all the glory, but that's the opposite of what the original article is about

    > Phil Katz
"PKWARE became a multimillion-dollar company"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz


I stand corrected.


I'm pretty sure Phil Katz was rich from pkzip.


Everything I've heard is that Phil Katz was deeply troubled. He had made millions by the time he succumbed to alcohol.


CP/M looked a lot like DEC's RT-11 operating system, which also owed a lot to earlier systems. Also, CPM-86 did exist on the PC alongside MSDOS. I used both, and MSDOS was clearly significantly better.

I'm not sure that CP/M was all that innovative or had crucial design properties.


This article was written in 1997. In 1999 Qualcomm stock went up 26 times (2600%). If he were still at Qualcomm (Edit: Wikipedia reports that he was with Qualcomm till at least 2006)... Back then companies were still generous with options and principal engineer at Qualcomm was quite senior.


That's a little misleading. Every tech stock in the world sky rocketed in 1999, and then they all tanked.

Qualcomm topped out at $88 a share in 1999, and was under $14 in 2002. Still up 3.8x, but nowhere near 26. It's increased since then, but even right now it's only $48.


You don't have to wait until retirement to sell shares.


Obviously. People also don't typically sell shares right at the top of a bubble, either. Look at the graph on Yahoo. The shares were $88 for like a day. Very unlikely he made 26x.


And quite bloated! A friend was with them in 1997, and left, simply out of having to spend more than half their time - literally - in meetings. The money was absolutely not a problem, nor the projects - they simply couldn't spend their time programming.


I've been using Eudora since 1995. Lack of UTF-8 support is causing problems now... I'll be moving to another client soon. Recommendations more than welcome!


If you're running Windows, try Pegasus Mail[1], it's a contemporary of Eudora, but is still maintained, and supports UTF-8. Releases are pretty infrequent of late, but email is still email, so things still work. :)

[1] http://www.pmail.com/


I actually bought a copy of that years ago, or rather paid for a manual which was the way you supported the author in those pre-Millennial days.

I tend to use sylpheed on Linux at home now when I need an off-line client.


Wow, pegasus mail! Thanks for bringing back the memories, I loved PM back in the day!


I think the spiritual successor to Eudora is MailMate. Barebones functional UI, tons of features (many hidden or needing some end user work to expose or make use of).

http://freron.com


I sometimes think I'm one of the few people happily using Mozilla Thunderbird. It hardly ever seems to come up in these recommendations and when it does, it's usually accompanied by plenty of criticism about it not being updated regularly enough. But I'm happy using it for 5 email accounts and the ability to copy the entire profile folder to a new PC (or even use it directly from a USB stick if you're that way inclined) has been really handy for me in the past. The same profile folder can even be shared between 2 different OS's!


I was in the same boat until I moved go Google apps for domains, and imported my Eudora content.

My mother is in the same boat right now, and looking for suggestions. UTF-8 and prevalence of HTML content are making it nearly impossible to keep using in this day and age.

Best features (not killer but very nice) are/were the storage format, and saving attachments externally, and not "in line" with the message.


Key features for me are filtering and multiple windows — it can sort all my email, and open mailbox or message windows for things I consider important.

Local storage in an accessible format (Eudora uses mbox) is table stakes; roach motels need not apply.

I'm still running OS X 10.6 largely because of Eudora, but some day this machine will fail, or I'll have some compelling need to ‘upgrade’, and by then I'd like to have a better option than Eudora in a VM.


[Disclosure: I'm a co-founder]

If you're open to new approaches to email you should try Unibox. It's an email client for Mac (and soon iOS) that lets you browse through your emails by person, so you always have all messages and all attachments with a person in one place.

https://www.uniboxapp.com


I still love and use Seamonkey. It's a mozilla-based product that is the modern heir of the old Netscape Communication Suite. You get a browser that is based on the latest Firefox but not dumbed down as Firefox is, an email client very similar to Thunderbird, an IRC client etc., all in a single package.


Depends on what you want. If you want a graphical client, try Thunderbird or Evolution, depending on if you need Windows support. If you want a powerful client for processing a large volume of mail, and you don't mind needing separate tools to handle HTML mail, then try mutt.


I was a long time Eudora user -- I moved to Thunderbird a long time ago and I'm still using it. There aren't really many reasonable desktop mail clients anymore.


Alas! I used Eudora well into the OS X days, by which time it was abundantly clear there would be no further development thereon. I still rather miss it - I loved the way I could open a new window, and have it be completely ready absolutely immediately, rather than first having to consult a lengthy database.

Around 2002 or so, I finally conceded, and went with OS X's own Mail. Not nearly the same, but - adequate, and viable for the future.

I was also touched to see mention of CUSeeMe. Ah, how we all nearly avoided Skype!


Kudos to Eudora. Brings back memories. I am 33 years old, but it seems like eons ago.

Anybody else remember:

    Kai's Power Tools (smear and smudge images)
    Hotline Communications (Warez)
    Real Player (Arrggg so much nerd rage)
    Claris Home Page (remember DHTML)
    ICQ (the original Slack)
    Winamp (awesome media player)
    3dMark (graphic card benchmark)


I'd add Napster to that list too. Pretty revolutionary for all the wrong reasons!

Paint Shop Pro and WinRAR as well. :)


Remember? I never found or needed to find a better mp3 player than Winamp. Simple, lighweight, all needed features, nothing more. Version 5.6 still running on my system.


I use winamp every day. I have yet to find something better.


3DMark is still around, it's even available on Android and iOS.


These. And Kai's Super Goo. :)


.. Caligari Truespace .. Animation:Master .. electroGig3DGO


I loved the quote by the founder of CU-SeeMe, good to see they are still around (chuckle):

http://www.wpine.com/


"Waste cycles drawing trendy 3D junk"

Always wondered if that was indirectly aimed at me....


“Help stamp out flying e's”

And of course <x-eudora-setting:319=32>


I started using Eudora when I first got to college. It was my way of keeping in touch with my old friends who I moved far away from.

I can still remember the .wav file that played when I got mail (and spam was not as common those days so it was always happy mail).


I used to work for an ISP back when anybody could start one. We shipped new customers a single 3.5" 1.44MB floppy with some shareware to get them started: a dialer program, a browser and Eudora on it...one floppy.


Thanks, Steve Dorner. I liked Eudora a lot.

And now I always remember what happens when you chop off a branch while sitting on it (a question on Eudora's help menu).


Loved Eudora back in the day




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