Yeah...I saw this about an hour ago, and bit my tongue. But it is dismaying that apparently the reverence for science is so high around here that it extends to downvoting criticisms of science as a process and sociological phenomenon to oblivion.
Maybe it will help these poor fellows if I say look, I have a PhD, I work in research, and I agree with everything krick says. Yes, papers are unnecessarily jargonistic and borderline illegible. Yes, there are massive problems with the incentive structure in science. We openly say science is "publish or perish"; how can we not expect that to incentivize lower paper quality, irreproducibility, and status signalling in the form of unnecessary jargon? Even if we assume the noblest of intentions for every single scientist, which is...idealistic.
spaceseaman is equating (IMO unfairly) criticism of the process of science in its current US manifestation with some kind of disrespect towards its obvious beneficial outcomes and motives. The whole thing IS full of inefficiency, and that's not solely because science is hard. Taxpayers have a right to demand that we don't waste their money and perhaps even to present our findings in a way they can understand with a reasonable application of effort (ideally not paywalled as well).
Well, the problem is that people so often go motte-and-bailey on it.
Motte: all the valid critiques of how institutional science works, all of which are well-known.
Bailey: full Paul Ryanism, cut the NSF and NIH to the fucking bone and tell scientists to go get "real jobs" in industry. Subject academics to yet more administration and reporting requirements that further incentivize bad science and just generally make everyone miserable.
We'd all be less tetchy about the motte if it wasn't used as an excuse for the bailey.
Thank you explaining my frustration in such a clear way. My original response was so feral because I interpreted his comment as a criticism of all scientists and a call to change the current University system to something more "libertarian" (because those are arguments I'm frequently exposed to, and the comment I responded to appeared to dog-whistle similar ideas).
I am perfectly happy to admit that institutional science is screwed up - really bad. Scientific texts are often un-readable, and the entire community has major systemic issues. But I react incredibly poorly to the opinion that scientists enjoy this system or even benefit from it. We hate the way academia is structured. It's just that no one can figure out anything better and the benefits for enough people are important enough that swaying them is incredibly difficult.
>We hate the way academia is structured. It's just that no one can figure out anything better and the benefits for enough people are important enough that swaying them is incredibly difficult.
It's also that everyone who wants to do science is held hostage to this system. There is no other institution focused on original research, beyond shipping a product within three to five years.
Academia sucks. There are no full-time research positions for good researchers anymore; grant funding has gotten as selective as the startup lottery. Even the people who "make it" have to work horrendous hours and spend all their time marketing themselves.
Even from the very outset, you're forced to put your heart on the line, declare science your calling and your passion, and then just suck it up when you can't find a tenure-track job.
Some fields don't have an "Exit" option that makes anything better, just a "Voice" option or bust. Besides which, every "Exit" is a betrayal of the social contract, a tiny declaration that society would rather rot and burn than fix problems like mature adults.
Ultimately the issue is that we somehow got fixated on the p-value, which (roughly and imprecisely speaking) quantifies the probability that there is any effect, even a small one, rather than using effect size estimates which estimate both the magnitude of the observed effect and the uncertainty in that estimate.
Using p-values as our primary metric means an overemphasis on finding small effects (which are usually not clinically relevant anyway) and unduly low focus on things with big effects.
If an effect is real, but very small, that too may well cause replicability problems because it suggests the effect may not be very robust to small changes in experimental conditions, whereas a big effect would be more likely to be robust.
If you think about the really important scientific findings -- the ones that made a big impact and are indisputably true -- statistics usually aren't necessary to prove them, because the effect size is so large it is simply obvious. I'm not against using statistics anyway, of course, but the point is that we should be looking mainly for effects with big effect sizes if we are after important findings, IMO. It is only a major bonus that big effect sizes are most likely to be replicable.
Because a very common type of hypothesis is along the lines of "gene X is important in disease Y" or "priming people with words will affect psychological outcome Z".
The opposite hypothesis is the null hypothesis which is "gene X is NOT important in disease Y" or "priming DOESN'T affect outcome Z".
Since we assume that most interventions will not affect most outcomes, these are much less surprising and interesting results. They are seen as "water is wet" type of findings and are thus hard to publish because no one is interested.
Now if your hypothesis is something like "X will cause Y to go up" and you actually find it causes Y to go down, that IS publishable. It is only when X has no effect on Y that you will have problems.
Yes, every time I hear people talking about how evil or difficult threads are, I just think back to my frequent use of OpenMP. It is really quite easy to take a single-threaded program and make it multithreaded with OMP -- so long as the jobs only read, and do not write shared state.
Usually I will write a program that does the following:
1. Initialize global read-only data structures
2. Parallelize jobs across STDIN lines (or whatever)
3. Output results within a #pragma omp critical block
It works wonders, and is literally 5 additional lines of code to make a single-threaded program multithreaded with OMP. But only for some types of program. The concept is very similar to what GNU parallel does.
In short, threads are not the problem per se, they are just the wrong tool for the job if you have a multiple-readers multiple-writers situation. Message passing, databases, or something else are more appropriate in those cases. But you will pry my read only shared memory space out of my cold, dead hands.
I have to thank you for your "Ph.D. Grind" memoir. There were many lessons in it, but the lesson I took from it, as I recall from reading it several years ago, was basically that you have to discard perfectionism to get anything done.
I'm not sure if that was even an intended message, but that's what I took from it, and I thought back to it during the dark hours of dissertation writing when I was repeatedly thinking "this isn't good enough". I also remembered the lesson that one should be willing to be flexible in the sense that the dissertation doesn't have to be exactly (or at all) what you originally intended it to be.
Wow. I just defended a few weeks ago, at 7 years. And honestly, until about year 5, I felt no rush whatsoever to get out. Not that I was derping around -- I finished with 20+ papers -- but I was enjoying it, and I realized that once I was out, two undesirable things would happen:
- I would have to start running the grant treadmill (and indeed, I'm just in the middle of finalizing a training grant that has as one of its requirements...that I must write another grant)
- In the US NIH, there is a 10 year "New Investigator" status that lasts 10 years from the PhD, where you are preferred for certain types of grant awards. So I reasoned it is much better to graduate late and start this clock from a strong position than to rush up the hierarchy and find yourself victim of the Peter Principle.
So for me, delay was a conscious strategy. Only downside was I had to live on a modest stipend. It was worth it for me, though. Another point that I'm making is that "productivity" is not equivalent to "graduating/getting promoted as fast as possible".
As for TFA, I would say that amazing quantities of work can get done by pushing yourself, deadlines, etc, but the creative work that lays groundwork for future growth only occurs during low-stress periods. I try, therefore, to set up alternating periods of both types.
Congratulations! I should have clarified in my initial post that:
1. I had no intention to stay in academia after my PhD, it was the best paying gig I could find in 2008 when the world was ending financially and the project was interesting with very little supervisory oversight as the area was new to him as well.
2. If you are enjoying the work, the funding is there and you feel like you are achieving what you want then taking your time is totally cool - I was more focussing on their other end when people want to finish up and can't get done.
Not really. My salary was funded by my PI and he was happy to keep someone at my skill level as long as I wanted (and at a bargain salary to boot).
From my department and committee, I started to feel rumblings around mid-year-6 of the "you should get on with it" lines. But they weren't trying to force me out or anything, it was more like concern.
I was spending (and still do) a much bigger percentage of my time on collaborative work than my peers, and they were concerned I wasn't adequately focused on my own career. But that wasn't the case at all -- I was doing what I thought was in my best interests, especially considering my field (bioinformatics) is inherently highly collaborative compared to the wet-lab stuff going on around me.
However, there were some institution-level reasons I cut it off at 7. After that, the institution's policy is that you have to start re-taking some classes you already took (and passed). It was irritating to always have to go to an irrelevant journal club every week (I was in a department that really had nothing to do with my research). Also, I had some appealing opportunities available if I finished when I did. But in no way was I "forced out".
Oh, God, I'm not sure anyone is totally happy with their dissertation, but I guess I should get over it. I got about 2/3 of what I wanted to done. I'm continuing with the project, though.
Don't worry, I cannot judge anything anyway. I just read you were into aging research. I went at a few senescence panels a few months ago and am very curious about the subject. Is your thesis a step into finding applications for this domain ? or more general ?
Well the project arose like this. I got interested in aging halfway through the PhD. I started collaborating heavily with aging people at my institution. But there are so many papers and so much data to get informed about the area.
So I wondered "is there some semi-empirical way to find out what is 'most important' in aging so I can focus my future efforts on that?"
The solution I hit on was to take all the available gene expression data and to build a system to ask "what genes/pathways/systems change most strongly and consistently with age across species, experimental conditions, and tissues"? This would be a "core aging signature", if it exists. Obviously this is only one of many ways to answer my question and neglects epigenetics, proteomics, etc, although we're currently extending the system to DNA methylation. There is not enough high-throughput proteomics data to make it possible to do this with protein yet. We do not use sequencing for now because it is much more of a processing burden and human RNA is behind dbGaP embargo. And at the time I started this, there really wasn't that much of it compared to GEO.
My boss's interests are much more general than aging, so he encouraged me to develop the system to be more generic while still answering my question, which I did. It became a general meta-analysis system for asking "what genes change expression with <arbitrary condition> across the available experiments in GEO?" We found other things we could do with such a huge amount of expression data, and some of them are in Chapter 5.
I would say the system itself is 80-90% done. But sadly I did not get to a really detailed analysis of aging yet, although my findings so far on that are in Chapter 4.
Thanks for your interest. I've actually met him once -- a friend of his I was talking to over beers introduced us -- but at the time, he was seemingly more interested in his pending date with the blonde he had just picked up than talking with a lowly graduate student. Can't say I blame him :) His papers are excellent, though. A more philosophical and broad approach is needed in aging, I think. He has mellowed a lot from the exaggerated claims he was making in the early 2000s. Maybe he saw my poster which covered an early version of this work, but we didn't talk about that.
The best aging researcher alive right now IMO though is Jim Kirkland. I've had the good fortune to work a little with him and the man is a living encyclopedia. His brilliance is obvious even in a conference full of PhDs.
haha so not surprised by your anecdote, I met him only once but it seems very degrey. Doesn't waste time.
From I what I could hear, he has to spend a lot of time managing funding for sub parts of the foundation and other efforts. Maybe this dilluted his claims a bit in time. All of his friends seemed to be pretty high grade researchers, it was a bit of an SF experiment sitting among that crowd.
I get why game theory is an attractive model to explain human behavior. But I always wonder why they invent the game, and try to explain behavior in terms of a particular model, rather than using real behavior to fit model parameters, so you could get (pseudo-) empirical numbers for "payoffs" etc.
Or maybe another way of putting it is that clearly rational and human behavior varies with the payoff structure, so it would make sense to include that as another variable.
I would sympathize with them on this issue. This is actually the second time this week I have been called a Nazi sympathizer essentially for believing everyone, including Nazis, should be able to air their views in such a way that interested people can hear them. (i.e., they don't have the right to spam everyone, but they shouldn't be blacklisted from businesses otherwise open to everyone just because of the content of their speech).
Being unironically called a "Nazi sympathizer" is by far the most chilling thing to me that has happened of all the political events that have occurred in the last few years. It is also sad that I have to add a disclaimer that I have voted Democrat in the last decade of elections, am not a bigot, etc, etc, (not that someone using this sort of language would believe me).
Do people who say these sorts of things not realize the massive irony of accusing people who defend basic rights of a generally detested group of being "Nazi sympathizers"?
> If anything, it is just going to cause people to sympathise with the Daily Stormer, which is presumably the opposite of the intended effect.
There are two different things you can sympathize with here: the merits of the Daily Stormer's position / ideology, and their desire to have a platform.
The domain registrar is shutting them down because they don't agree with the merits of their ideology. I am reading the criticism above as saying, "If the domain registrar shuts them down, more people will be sympathetic to their ideology, which is counterproductive." I think it is fair to label people inclined to sympathy with Nazi ideas as Nazi sympathizers.
I suppose it could be an argument that the domain registrar's action will cause people to be sympathetic to the fact that they should have a domain name, but that makes less sense to me.
> I think it is fair to label people inclined to sympathy with Nazi ideas as Nazi sympathizers.
OK, fair enough, but that's not what you originally said, nor is it what people are doing when they throw that term at me. They're (sometimes intentionally) conflating advocacy of free speech for repugnant ideas with advocacy of those ideas themselves. But I appreciate your openness to try to see my position.
I certainly have no sympathy for Nazis. But the prospect of an authoritarian Internet is indeed chilling. And that's why we need uncensorable overlay networks and such.
This viewpoint confuses the legal meaning of the First Amendment, which indeed only applies to the government, with its rationale.
The rationale is the theory that having a diversity of viewpoints, including some that are dangerous or repugnant, is the best approach towards a robust civil society and intellectual growth. If you disagree with something you hear or read, you can ignore it, or you can criticize it, but banning speech causes two undesirable outcomes:
1) The speech will continue anyway, but not in the public eye, where it can be criticized
2) The popularity of an idea is different from the correctness of an idea. It has happened many times that an unpopular or even heretical idea has turned out to be right.
Almost certainly these people are no Galileo. But this approach to free speech is intended to protect the Galileos of the world. It should be kept in mind that talk of revolution in the U.S. during the late 1700s would have been considered extremely dangerous and repugnant by many as well.
This is historical revisionism in the extreme. That rationale is younger than a good number of people on this board, not the golden ideal in the minds of the founders. You're literally posting to a forumn where certain speech is moderated; it's because of that moderation that you post here, otherwise it would be a cesspool of off topic memes and spam (a la /r/programming et al). A private company or even a cabal of private companies cannot ban speech. Nothing is stopping anyone from hosting which ever content they'd like. You are not entitled to the walled garden that Google and others insist is "The Internet".
Private businesses and lay people not wanting to do business with you is fundamentally different from official prosecution. I will gladly fight for any group's protection from governmental over reach; I can't even begin to understand the rational behind choosing "private businesses can't have moderation" as the hill you choose to die on.
Hmm, perhaps instead of "rationale", I should have said "philosophy behind" the 1st Amendment. Obviously the 1st Amendment is not directly intended to cover entities other than the government. But almost everything in the Bill of Rights is essentially intended to protect the rights of minorities against the tyranny of the majority, whose representative is the government. It is not necessary to protect popular views, from either the government or from others.
This philosophy is as old as the university and modern science. It is certainly no younger than the "free speech, but not consequences" argument, which I read as a thinly-veiled way to threaten unpopular views with unspecified "consequences".
> "private businesses can't have moderation"
I wasn't arguing that they can't. Only that it can be unwise and a net negative for our society for them to choose to do so. I would draw a distinction between trolling/spam and someone honestly espousing an unpopular view.
It is true, some kind of filtering is needed, because there's too much information for any individual to absorb. The question is, who (if not me myself) is doing the filtering and what are their incentives? dang's incentives are aligned with mine: good-quality technical discussion, and people aren't blacklisted purely for espousing unpopular views.
The incentives of corporations are not. Google, Facebook, and in this instance, Namecheap, are presumably taking these actions to safeguard their image and maximize profit, not to actually make their users maximally informed. There is a conflict of interest here.
Finally, I think all this becomes much more important when it comes to political speech, because people have a marked tendency to want to shout down, ignore, misrepresent, or otherwise not engage with political views that make them uncomfortable. Look how the media misrepresented the Damore memo. I take no position on the memo itself, but do assert that people are better off knowing actual arguments from all sides, rather than side A blacklisting side B and then giving strawman representations of what B thinks.
See this is where we'll probably never agree. The "all sides" argument, I think, is terribly flawed. There will always "be another side" however there's no guarantee that that side is equally rational or any way valid. That's how you end up with anti-vaxers sitting at the table next to doctors, oil exec sitting next to climate scientists, and intelligent design proponents sitting next to biologists.
It's impossible to rationally debate ideas with no rational foundation; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence not calls to physical violence or pronouncements of superiority. A world in which "whites are the master race" is just an unpopular view that we should welcome as opposed to an unfounded assertion backed by no evidence is not a world in which any "net positive" has been added to society. When the burden is put on rational people to offer counter arguments as opposed to the extremists to offer evidence rationality loses every time; just look to vaccines and climate change.
I wrote a much longer comment, but long story short:
I'm in medical research. Do I think antivaxxers should be able to publish in medical journals? No (unless they performed an experiment that passes peer review, etc).
Do I think they should be able to run their own websites, have nonviolent meetings or rallies without losing their jobs? Yes, I do. Even though antivaxxers are doing far more harm than neo-Nazis are.
Also, "scientific/academic consensus" and "rationality" are not synonyms.
And yet you're moving the goal posts. No one is saying anyone can't excerise their first ammendment rights; just that by the same token no one can strip private citizens and business of their first amendment rights. Nothing can, and hopefully never will, stop these groups from running websites and holding rallies; however we as citizens and business can say "not on our servers" and not without a 15,000 strong counter rally. Free speech is not mono-directional (the exact same way nature can tell antivaxxers to fuck off until they do a peer reviewed experiment or a forum can ban you for posting affiliate links).
No, it's not. There's a world of difference between running your own website, and running a site on hardware owned by someone else, managed by a completely different party.
Now if it were the ISPs handing this ruling we'd be on the same page, but it isn't. There's no freedom of speech argument for "right to demand services without restriction". Same way a restaurant will turn you away if you show up with "no shirt, no shoes". Namecheap is using the freedom of speech of it's leadership in saying "Nazis and other groups that incite violence are not groups we want to host".
Seems like a distinction without a difference. Even if you run a website on your own server, you are still using the ISP's hardware, so they could make the exact same argument. And hosting services are so popular exactly because ISPs have discouraged self-hosting.
Right for service totally without restrictions, no, but "viewpoint-based discrimination" or other types of discrimination are a separate legal category for a reason. "Shirts and shoes required" is different from "whites only" (or, for that matter, "liberals only") on a restaurant door. We allow the former but not the latter, and I think that's reasonable.
Oh, yeah. Health issues. For me, it got to the point where every morning I would wake up and vomit. It got to be part of my morning routine to just get it over with before heading straight to work. Otherwise it might happen in the car.
I think the apathy that accompanies depression and burnout is your body's way of telling you: "your current set of goals and priorities is really, REALLY not working for me, and you need to change something". What leads to burnout is ignoring these increasingly desperate signals from your body and brain.
Maybe it will help these poor fellows if I say look, I have a PhD, I work in research, and I agree with everything krick says. Yes, papers are unnecessarily jargonistic and borderline illegible. Yes, there are massive problems with the incentive structure in science. We openly say science is "publish or perish"; how can we not expect that to incentivize lower paper quality, irreproducibility, and status signalling in the form of unnecessary jargon? Even if we assume the noblest of intentions for every single scientist, which is...idealistic.
spaceseaman is equating (IMO unfairly) criticism of the process of science in its current US manifestation with some kind of disrespect towards its obvious beneficial outcomes and motives. The whole thing IS full of inefficiency, and that's not solely because science is hard. Taxpayers have a right to demand that we don't waste their money and perhaps even to present our findings in a way they can understand with a reasonable application of effort (ideally not paywalled as well).