> Years ago I was on the "people who block JavaScript are crazy" bandwagon, until just loading a single news article online meant waiting for a dozen ads and autoplaying videos to load.
Seems like clear case of "crossing the river to collect water" (as the Swedish saying says)? This is what I use uBlock Origin (with the right blocklists) for and it happens automagically. I did use uMatrix for quite a awhile, but eventually ended up ditching it because uBlock Origin worked so well.
What the f. Do they even want users. I can not create a Firefox Account. Every register page is a login page. When I enter an email and a password it expects an existing account (which I do not have). This is beyond belief.
Oh, great timing. Just ended a conversation with some friends who had bought a dishwasher. The display for these new machines had been removed, so the only way to tell when the machine was really finished was to... Guess what? Download an app! I suppose I don't need to tell you all the permissions it asked for...
Someone can make an absolute killing by creating an entire brand of “dumb” appliances that Just Work. Make them sensible quality, modern, entirely offline.
100% agree, I've been saying this for years. I've joked with friends that I'd call it Dumb Inc. It's (mostly) in jest, but I think there's a real mismatch of expectations with a lot of modern appliances with respect to what a consumer needs and what companies use to try and differentiate their products from the competition.
In evolutionary biology, there's this idea that "evolution is stingy" – in most cases, a species doesn't have substantially more capability than it needs to survive (human brains are an often cited exception). I kind of expect that, outside of a computer, most product design should be err on the side of being stingy too. If I buy a toaster, I don't need it to be wi-fi connected so it can send me a text notification when the toast is done. I say this satirically, but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if one existed. Frackin' toasters.
> 100% agree, I've been saying this for years. I've joked with friends that I'd call it Dumb Inc.
The problem is that — in a not so distant future, where every company makes a large slice of its profit from selling user data — Dumb Inc. products will be a lot more expensive than the competition. As people in general are not technically competent to assess the consequences of their digital actions, they will chose the cheaper option. So, perhaps Dumb Inc. won't have mass market appeal, but I guess it could still sell to the techo elite. :)
Maybe – but I think this assumes that general consumers will forever be unsophisticated with respect to their privacy. That may be the case, but I think it's a bold to claim to make. In my mind, that claim goes against the current trend towards more privacy.
I also highly doubt that a manufacturer of smart products would pass a "we profit off your data" discount down to consumers. Better they pocket the additional profit and then market it as a convenience for the consumer, which I think is precisely what's happening right now.
> future, where every company makes a large slice of its profit from selling user data
Which is why we have the GDPR to prevent this dystopian shite!
The only people on HN who object to the GDPR are those whos scummy business model exploits user data (and those who don't realise GDPR popups only need to exist because advertisers must now ask permission to use your personal data; and so they should!).
But that's not how evolution works, is it? If living creatures didn't have more capability than they need to survive, they would necessarily go extinct the minute the environment changed.
Also, as I wrote in my other comment, there are "dumb" appliances on the market - the fact that most people won't search for them is exactly what makes them rare.
I think privacy advocates think that there’s this massive untapped market of single-issue consumers who would gladly spend the extra money for this kind of thing.
I don’t think it’s there. I’d be willing to bet appliances are already a commoditized market and the margins are already painfully thin. “Absolute killing” it would not be.
they'll make a lot less of 'an absolute killing' than the devices and apps that spy on you through your phone and generate a constant revenue stream after the initial purpose.
That's why dumb devices are getting harder and harder to find. It's much easier to take advantage of users and steal their data with 'smart' devices.
it depends on how much those dumb devices cost. many people are price sensitive and unaware of the privacy concerns, and the less business you have the more expensive each unit is to make, etc.
Dumb TVs are the same thing. Hard to find, and surprisingly expensive for the feature set when you do find them.
I don't currently own a TV but if there was a decent dumb TV that was decently affordable and wasn't garbage I might buy one to watch movies on.
Could run a shadow vlan/tablet/etc. where you do absolutely nothing personal and just use it as a UI for the subsidized IoT devices. Obviously this is serious effort right now for most people, so a mass-market shim that makes it easy for all could be a successful niche.
People love the integration of a single thing in their pocket, but maybe some are getting privacy-conscious enough to have two. Think of it like a TV remote that floats around your coffee table.
My brother-in-law bought a Speed Queen washer because it has relatively primitive technology. As I understand it, they're aimed more at commercial users or users who want to fix their machines themselves. https://speedqueen.com/
The problem is a certain % of HN readers and so on will but those, even pay a premium.
But the rest of the population just wants smart appliances and Nest or other smart thermostats, Ring/other key hole cameras, Alexa/other smart devices and Facebook/Instagram/TikTok/…
So, unfortunately it’s not going to be a very successful business because the dumb masses have been brainwashed into accepting these smart devices.
I think Framework would be a good test. If they are successful it may imply that there is a large enough market, otherwise all bets are off.
Do people really want this stuff or are they forced to use it? When your options are either buying this IoT thing or not buying the thing at all, what can you do?
I don't think anyone is forced to buy an Amazon Eco speaker, a Google Home or an Apple Homepod. Given that people are buying these tells me that some people want it and are willing to sacrifice privacy.
Similarly, a lot of people are willing to buy a Tesla despite all the monitoring that that car does. And so on.
So, it is obvious that a certain percentage of people don't care about privacy. Now, what is dangerous is that a substantial percentage of these people are so called tech-savvy and even people in the tech industry. So, if they don't care despite them being able to understand the privacy issues, the general population which looks at these people for buying advice is certainly not going to care.
There's actually a pretty large market in used appliances that have been refurbished with all-new wear parts (seals, bushings, etc.) I don't think the manufacturers want to create dishwashers and other appliances that last decades anymore.
Care to elaborate? I've got a dream of someday making an aftermarket appliance control board that could be retrofitted into different types of appliances, offering smart features - Free firmware, Free app, automation, etc (obviously without all the surveillance/lockin bullshit). I'd love to hear what else is already out there.
The fact that you are here, making this comment, as if there weren't any, proves there's no great market opportunity. Few people will seek out such things; instead they will continue to complain about how there aren't any.
I'm not making a general comment; I bought a washer and dryer for the first time in my life a couple years ago, GE branded, and they have no wifi, bluetooth, or even any kind of electronic display.
As it happens, I got them more for their dimensions fitting the space I had than anything else, as GE hasn't had the greatest reputation for reliability in recent years. But so far, they work fine.
Personally I think I prefer devices which offload the UI to a smartphone. I was thinking of something like this years ago where you could use something like Bluetooth to push a web UI so devices like thermostats would no longer need to have a shitty UI for things like programming schedules.
Unfortunately in this case the greed of the manufacturer hoping to monetize their UI has ruined an otherwise decent idea(although the device really should function on some basic level without a phone).
I believe the other person was talking about having the devices serve up webpage UIs, so you wouldn't need their specific app, just a browser. A lot of makers do this with their 3D printers and CNC machines, as it avoids the cost and hassle of installing a display on the machine.
Two of the more popular ones, for those interested:
Personally I don’t like those either. I’ve experienced it with printers (which can only be configured initially via USB and some app), 3D printers (configured by putting an SD card in your computer), and other gizmos. They’re all a pain to deal with, especially if your WiFi details change or their IP does.
Some others expect you to connect to THEIR Wi-Fi network instead. Which is also a complete pain.
I don’t mind having an app to make the device more useful, but it needs to have enough controls on the front to use the thing and preferably reconfigure the Wi-Fi if necessary.
At the time I was considering it, I figured there should be a dedicated protocol for serving things like this. Something simple, like a subset of bluetooth, with easy discoverability. Sort of like NFC perhaps. Something that you can implement with minimal software and hardware support. Obviously you risk the protocol dying and devices becoming bricks. I'm not sure how you avoid that.
Heck, we've even seen that model simply to use goods you've purchased, as with digital restrictions malignant books, music, videos, and games, where the restrictions-management servers were discontinued and access to the goods (bads) bought requiring them became useless.
3d printers and CNC machines almost always involve using a computer anyway and good chance they are physically connected. Not the case with my washing machine or toaster
I'm not a big fan of this. If I want to see a device's status, I look at it. Or in the case of certain devices, I listen for a specific hum. This requires no setup and no maintenance. I can check the status of my washing machine, as can anyone else in the house.
> Personally I think I prefer devices which offload the UI to a smartphone.
In concept, I agree. As you mention, in practice, the apps used nearly always collect data about you and the use of your devices to send back to the mothership.
That makes their use unacceptable to me. Requiring the use of a smartphone app is a showstopper.
But even if that wasn't the case, it seems odd to require me to provide a device of my own in order to use a machine. There are a lot of people who don't own a smartphone at all (and I will join their ranks once my current one dies). Why exclude that part of the market?
This could be great, if the interfaces were to adhere to some standard. Like, if there was a single web server on a chip thingie which would expose http endpoints, and even that could be replaced with something else, because the signals that it sends on the wires are also documented.
But of course, this lessens the control of the manufacturers, and increases the control of the users. So it won't happen until it's up to the manufacturers.
> The display for these new machines had been removed, so the only way to tell when the machine was really finished was to... Guess what?
Welll....
The display on my dishwasher technically exists. It is set on the top face of the panel, facing up into the counter, so it cannot be seen when the dishwasher is closed.
I'm not sure who thought of this, but it must have been approved by multiple people to appear on a real, already-manufactured dishwasher. Every one of those people was apparently terrible at their job.
This is an awful, consumer hostile trend. I have a Bose sound bar that requires an app, account, and internet and blue tooth connection just to change the settings. Luckily it has a remote so I can use it without any of those things, but it can only change the volume and power the device on/off. I only kept it because the sound is good and it was a gift.
The default "happy path" for new Samsung televisions is to be set up through an app. A mandatory step is to allow background location tracking permissions.
> Today I got cursed out by a spandexed “real biker” as I passed by with my electric whirrrr.
So, a motorbike a passes a human powered vehicle? That should come as no surprise to neither of you. :)
To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do. Getting up to 15 MPH when you're riding for 8 km in a city when stopping for lights should be no problem without disabilities on a decent bike. An 8 km ride takes 20 minutes at 15 MPH. At 20 MPH it's 15 minutes. You'd add 5 minutes off your ride and get some proper exercise.
As a reference, my grandmother rode her bike 12 miles to school and then back at the age of 10.
E-bikes make a lot of sense for longer rides with cargo bikes packed kids, trash, food and whatnot.
> To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do. Getting up to 15 MPH when you're riding for 8 km in a city when stopping for lights should be no problem without disabilities on a decent bike. An 8 km ride takes 20 minutes at 15 MPH. At 20 MPH it's 15 minutes. You'd add 5 minutes off your ride and get some proper exercise.
Morning commute is not a moment where I have any interest in exercise, arriving sweaty at work, needing to always carry multiple sets of clothes, ...
I'd rather see it like the dutch, the bike is a tool for moving from A to B. If you want to do this while exercising more power to you, that's not my jam.
> To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do. Getting up to 15 MPH when you're riding for 8 km in a city when stopping for lights should be no problem without disabilities on a decent bike.
I think most people in the North America and Europe live in cities that are so flat biking is just like walking faster. Maybe that's where your frame of mind comes from.
Where I live the hills are so steep that it's impossible to bike them solely human-powered unless you're an actual athlete. And even the more modest inclines will make a regular person give up on the thought of biking since it'd be a workout.
E-bikes are awesome for this, as they make tough inclines much easier.
Lol, where I'm from(Polish mountains) you can have a proper mountain bike with 30 gears, and even in the lowest gear I can guarantee 90% of people wouldn't be able to cycle up to my house without at the very least standing on the pedals - most people just give up and walk pushing the bike in fact. It took me years of training to comfortably cycle up some of those roads while sitting, and it takes a lot of effort.
You'd add 5 minutes off your ride and get some proper exercise.
But I don't want "proper exercise" to be a part of my commute. I want to get to work or to a client quickly, efficiently and with a minimum of effort. I absolutely do not want to sweat through my shirt or arrive at a meeting in need of shower.
> I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do
Sweat. I do 2km twice a day for the school run in my unassisted mtb. On anything but a cold day, I work up a mild sweat. I wouldn't want to arrive at work in the state I get back in on a warm day.
Many commuters don't want to get "proper exercise" on the way to work. Hard enough getting secure bike storage, let alone a shower.
8km each way on my commute isn't a problem as such, but in summer 'm drenched in sweat in the first couple of minutes. An e-bike lets me skip that. It also lets me cycle 30km leisurely around my city without getting exhausted. I can turn off my motor if I want some exercise, and turn it back on again when I want to sail through the streets.
>To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do. Getting up to 15 MPH when you're riding for 8 km in a city when stopping for lights should be no problem without disabilities on a decent bike
As mentioned there is more than that. An entire accelerates from stop MUCH more quickly which adds a significant element of safety.
By the way the bike share ebikes are like 30lbs and speed limited so there are plenty of times when my "motorbike" has been passed in the road by a well-geared human powered vehicle, friend.
> To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do.
Snow =D I live in Canada and we have quite a bit of snow and ice on the roads in the winter. I'm currently waiting for an electric fat-tire bike (RadRover 6) which should allow me to ride to work without getting soaked in sweat.
All I said was that the title should say approved in Australia for context on a site that is dominated by American news, politics, companies, and audience; not that it shouldn’t be posted. You’re jumping to conclusions.
https://boringproxy.io/
Written by the same guy that wrote awesome-proxy list in the original post.