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LOL and true to my experience. In the 80's was a United Airlines employee on a project where Arthur Anderson (aka Accenture) was the consultant. The project included approximately 75 entry level AA programmers that were brought to the office on two big buses. My job was to write specs for them. The specs had to be 100% detailed, every "if", every "loop", except that I had to follow the AA methodology and write the entire program basically in flowchart form. Pencil and paper. The spec was a looseleaf notebook of diagrams. The spec would then be stored in a box, like, the kind you would use for moving, and the boxes put into a storage room. If I needed to change a spec, an AA employee would have to climb the piles of boxes to find my box, and then I would use actual scissors, actual glue, to make the change.

It. Was. Insane.


Another golden memory of that project was when I was given the assignment to meet with users - accounting people - on screens for approving tax payments. It was kinda a big deal for me at that stage in my career, to even talk to users. So, I meet with these guys and I introduce the topic, and they go, "What are you talking about? What do you mean 'approving'? They are taxes. We HAVE to pay them"


I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say here. Yes, the company has to pay them but someone has to look at the numbers so that the company doesn't overpay or underpay.


Hmmm, what am I trying to say... I guess... as I think about it now, the lines of communication were very hierarchical - up and down the chain. But when it was time for me, a tech guy at the bottom, to talk to a user on the front lines, the disconnect was hilarious to me - but maybe you had to be there... I feel like I'm a boring old man telling this story.


Ahh I see. I can understand why it would bring you back that memory. I was just confused at first, cheers!


And it sounds like the users didn't understand that in some manner.


I’m not even sure insane match what you just described at that point.

Now I know someone that do that for the software for subparts of nuclear reactors and it’s exactly all the same. The specs, the time to review, the politics of hierarchy, the time to fix a simple bug (can take 2 weeks for a simple if)… But at least the specs are in a software.


If you were building a nuclear reactor, would you err on the side of too much documentation, oversight, and code review, or too little?


I was just sharing the story.

Now 2 weeks for a simple change in a if. Some changes can take months and the software is not just a few line of code so if you do the math you may start to have rust on your hardware even before the v1.0 is out. Also nobody is going to read this type of “doc” but another schema spec coder if that’s the name.


That makes me think that formally proving the code correct using a proof assistant would actually be faster than the process you describe.


Say what you will about the Jira process, there is no climbing involved...


Perfect opportunity for a new corpspeak term.

"Let's sync this week for the pre-sprint Jira climbing"


Waterfall is so last week. Properly scheduled climbing projects meet MVP more often!


Yeah, Sooo over Waterfall. We do Wagile here!

(Hey, what are the worst bits of waterfall and agile? Let's combine them into our methodology!)


If you use Basecamp you can climb with hill charts: https://basecamp.com/features/hill-charts


Just curious, but in the 1980's, what viable alternatives did you have to pen and paper? Did Visio exist? Did any flowchart tools exist, for DOS? For Apple ][? If they did, could you navigate, or print, a hundreds-to-thousands page flowchart in one of those OS'es?


If I had just written the program directly, I could have TYPED, and I could have used the backspace and delete keys to erase instead of an ACTUAL eraser, and I could have used cut and paste instead of ACTUAL scissors and paste.

Plus, I could have used the compile, test, debug cycle to verify that what I was writing actually worked.

My specs were the same complexity as the code: Let's pretend, for example, there were no "sort" statement in the computer language. My spec couldn't just say, "sort the names in alphabetical order". My spec had to have the exact logic of a sort algorithm, but drawn as a flowchart (actually, not a flowchart but an AA proprietary format)

I didn't have to do "sort", but I did have to code algorithms that were more complex than that.

BTW, to make it more fun, there were rules about who was allowed to talk to whom. I was not allowed to talk to the programmer who had to retype my spec into actual code. I didn't even know who he/she was. And the programmer wasn't allowed to talk to me directly, but had to go up a chain.


Cutting and pasting with scissors and actual paste sounds pretty awful. But what I was hoping to get more insight about, if the task was to draw tens of thousands of pages of flowcharts (not text), would a 1980's PC (maybe 16mb RAM, 5.25" floppies, no GUI) be more efficient than a pen and paper? Even on a modern PC, I can often draw a flowchart quite a bit faster than I can create it in Lucidcharts or similar software.


I dunno. I myself was pretty clueless about PCs at that time. I owned a Kaypro from the early 1980s that ran CP/M, but I never touched a PC running Windows (or even just DOS) until 1994. They weren't part of the centralized IT departments I worked in. They WERE part of a sorta grass roots revolt by the user departments, setting up their own Lotus spreadsheets, whatever, as a way of bypassing the slow bureaucratic centralized IT departments.


nice.. it's just "low code" :-)


How can the people who came up with this and put this system in place not know how insane this sounds?


I don't know. I speculate: So, like, the consulting company has to sell... something. They develop a... what was it called...a system development life cycle methodology? Maybe partly sincere, maybe partly bullshit, I dunno. I remember it visually as a shelf of several manuals. I imagine top AA partners selling to the top execs. Then everybody down the hierarchy doing what they've been told to do, being, not evil, but just respectful of the hierarchy. Also, many of those AA people only knowing the AA way, not having the experience, the confidence to be sure that the AA way was insane. Also, the way AA worked then "Up or Out", you are always competing with your peers. Not good for your career to rock the boat, to attack the methodology that the top partners had sold UAL.

And I don't think there was much that we as UAL employees could do. The fact that upper UAL management brought in AA to lead the project, to me, that means they were already dismissive of their in-house people and seduced by the outside people. Later in my career I experienced both sides of this a few times.

I only worked on the project 14 months. During that time the top AA partner in charge quit AA. Then the replacement quit AA, and maybe another. Maybe even they knew. I think a lot of people knew it was insane, but not able to change things as individuals.


I use Linux Mint. I don't think there's much if anything that makes Linux mint harder for a non-tech user. I think it's already the better option.

But for non-tech users, I think buying a device with one OS and then wiping it to install a different OS is scary. Or doing anything that sounds risky to their daily laptop. So, where is the non-scary option for them to start with Linux? The laptops with Linux pre-installed, they aren't well known (or cheap).

Does a Chromebook count as desktop linux?


I'm a retired software developer. I have my computer and my non-techie wife's computer running Linux Mint. For me, doing some hobby coding, yes, I paste some incantations, but for her, I don't have to do anything. A clean install just works fine as is.


I recently did a backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon that included Horseshoe Mesa. There are old copper mines there, and beautiful green and blue copper-bearing rocks visible. I asked (in a facebook forum), why just in that one place and not other places in the Grand Canyon, given how the rock layers in the Grand Canyon tend to repeat themselves for miles and miles. The url is what somebody posted as the answer. It was so satifying to have a question and have it be so thoroughly answered.


My most typical weight on the Sierra portion of the PCT, with a typical amount of water, food, was about 30 lbs. That includes warm clothes, tent, bear canister, microspikes (but no ice axe). And my luxuries: Crocs, Kindle, inflatable pillow. No stove.

But where I started (mile 652, Walker Pass) was hot with no sure water until 30 miles in, so for that stretch I started with 13 liters of water, my total weight about 45 pounds.

On a 5-day, 4-night trip I'll bring 4-5 pounds of food. I'm getting better at not carrying more water than I need. If I have to go 10 miles to the next water, I'll drink up and carry 3 liters.


I do get that when there are too many people the experience is different. I do get that being in the wilderness with, like, earbuds in your ears is different than listening to the sounds of nature. I do get that being off trail can be different than on a trail. I do get that navigating with a map and compass can be different and fun versus using a GPS app on your phone.

But I wouldn't say, "to really experience the wilderness you have to....".

Instead I would repeat the maxim, "Hike Your Own Hike".


Yeah, that's fair. But there is certainly a difference when you bushwhack as opposed to trail hiking to a popular camp site or scenic spot.


My hiking boots were good for about 400 miles. Now I use trail runners and I don't trust them after 200 miles - the souls get too smooth. Their combined 14,000 miles divided by 26 means they were getting 540 miles out of each pair.


I did a section of the PCT. Too early in the year? Too much snow. But if you go later in the year the melting snow makes the streams too high and fast and dangerous - people drown. But if you go later in the year the mosquitoes will drive you insane. But if you go later in the year, that's when things dry out the fires will drive you off the trail...

Pick your poison.


There's some irony here, no, that a trail RUNNER is saying that the OTHER guy is going to fast to smell the roses. That's what I - I'm a trail lumberer - think when the trail runners zip by.


Point taken!

I'm actually quite a lumberer myself; I like running on trails, but my primary metric is time-in-woods, not speed.


This is a quote from the book "The Motion of the Body through Space" by Lionel Shriver. It's about exercise, but it applies to hiking ambition too.

"People who exercise less than you are pathetic; people who exercise more than you are nuts.”


“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?”

— Carlin


Do the people doing thirty over really see it that way?


People who do a single-year triple crown are nuts because you can't take the time to enjoy it at the sort of pace that is required. Head down, dash for the objective is not how to enjoy nature!


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