A minimum viable product that is very large and takes years to get out is just scope creep disguised as minimum viable product.
Minimum viable product used to mean, "What do we build that hooks a customer immediately?". It is about getting them engaged and learning from their engagement to then build features onto the MVP.
OMG is that the technical name for my development style? I'm not like super deep in technobabble since there are so many coined names and references that it is nearly impossible to assign the correct one.
I think these comments here are politically charged. There are a lot of walk of life in the US not limited to politics or who/what someone voted for.
I am sure if Americans are not welcome in Europe it isn't because they are an American, but that individual isn't very nice or polite around others. I haven't been to Europe in a long time, because Asia is so much more awesome.
There are plenty of Russians who aren't politically engaged. I think you can see why they may still not be as welcome in Europe as, say, someone from Peru.
I can tell you that it's now the norm in many European institutions that are even remotely sensitive or deep technology related to spend much more effort on background checks for Chinese and Russian nationals than for those of other countries. That's not very welcome. Look past pure tourism.
Why always jump to the extreme that will have almost zero political chance of winning. Billboards sound like a feasible incremental step in a good direction. Start there, everyone sees tangible improvements and is primed to make a bigger leap. Killing an entire industry as step one, is just simply never going to happen, dream on.
As a lot of HN is US based, I’ll just say in our divided bipartisanship state it’s a real shame we’ve forgotten that incremental improvements is always an option and I’d argue usually the best kind.
Establishing that you support the extreme action does not mean that you are unwilling to accept incremental action as well.
Let's start by banning billboards, and then let's keep going and ban more forms of mental pollution until the overton window has moved enough that we can entirely ban the ability to pay to control someone's attention.
I don't think GP was suggesting this a political policy worth pursuing, but was just stating a preference. And stating an extreme preference does not imply that one would not be pleased with incremental improvement.
I, too, would love it if all advertising just disappeared.
It isn't a political statement there are other avenues in marketing besides advertising. If a product is genuinely good it should serve on its own. Advertisements lead too much opportunity for exploitation.
How? People would still use their money to buy things. A lot of advertising is adversarial. If demand stays the same but neither you nor your competitors can advertise your products, everyone makes more money.
Of course, there are lots of products where people don't know they would benefit from the product - or don't think of it. For example, life insurance, business loans, university education, movie releases, etc. In those cases, arguably the advertising is creating a positive for society. (Since its resulting in a need being addressed that wouldn't be addressed otherwise.)
If you're a brick-and-mortar business, you list yourself on whatever various directories exist for businesses, create a Yelp page, etc. Yes, you might get a slower start, but as more people visit your store and come away with a good impression, they'll tell their friends.
But regardless, I... just don't care. Your need as a new business to find customers does not supersede my need to not suffer psychological manipulation every time I go outside or peruse the internet.
Directories would be advertising. All your proposing is a world where first comer world by default have a stranglehold on the market. It's a dystopia.
Outside I can agree with and prefer Billboard free areas but you choose it online. You choose to use services that are funded by advertising. They are all optional so why don't you choose not to use them?
> All your proposing is a world where first comer world by default have a stranglehold on the market. It's a dystopia.
How so? Suppose I'm looking to buy a camera in a world without advertising. I'd still want to look up product reviews and find out information about good deals from different manufacturers before buying one. Some people may visit a camera store and see what they have in stock, and talk to the sales assistants. Someone else might ask their friends - who may also be in the photography community. In any case, I don't need advertisements at all. Why would you assume I'd only buy a camera from an old, established company? I don't think I've even seen a single advertisement for a camera for years. It didn't seem to stop me from shopping around and buying one a few months ago.
Likewise if I want a packet of chips at the supermarket, I look down the aisle and decide what to buy based on price, brand familiarity, flavour and packaging. How would a ban on advertising change anything?
How does your camera shop decide what to stock? How do they discover new brands to include? Without advertising smaller shops and by extension you would be unaware of any new brands or accessories available.
A ban on advertising would again stop grocery stores from discovering new products and testing them. Why bother when you can just partner up with P&g and stock only their stuff, your customers won't know there is choice so might as well just stock the brand that can offer you the best deal.
> How does your camera shop decide what to stock? How do they discover new brands to include?
In the case of camera shops, camera brands actively reach out to the stores and have a relationship with them. The camera brands send reps out to train the sales people on the features of new camera models.
Likewise, brands partner with supermarkets to sell their products. Thats not advertising. Nobody is proposing or talking about stopping businesses from forming relationships with one another.
So I want to start a new shop I need to hope the major brands deem me worthy enough to send reps out.
My point with supermarkets wasn't that those relationships would be banned it's that there is no point in providing variety if there is no advertising to encourage alternatives. So the optimal strategy would be for nestle to do a deal with Walmart to only stock their products. The public isn't being made aware of alternatives so the demand for them will be gone
> So I want to start a new shop I need to hope the major brands deem me worthy enough to send reps out.
If you started a new shop, you would want to reach out to the major (and minor) camera brands directly. Do you think shops, today, get inventory by advertising somehow? No. They get inventory by cultivating relationships with suppliers. Advertising has very little to do with it.
> there is no point in providing variety if there is no advertising to encourage alternatives
Of course there is. I've never seen any advertising for 95% of the brands I buy at the supermarket. But I still appreciate that their products are on the shelves, and I still buy them. If I visually imagine all the groceries I regularly buy, most of the products are from brands I've only discovered by chance at the supermarket. (Eg, milk, eggs, canned food, etc).
Cancer treatment is bad for health too, but it's worth it to cut out and kill cancer before it kills the host. Not everything that is "bad for the economy" is bad for the humans who have to live under it.
I've had cancer, I have the scars and the lifelong effects from the surgery and chemo. Don't try that emotional shit on me. I'll make whatever comparison I damn well want.
In fact you're right that it's an inappropriate comparison, because the cancer didn't do what it did on purpose.
Such and interesting thought provoking situation. So much money circulates and thrives off the idea of advertising. The concept of YouTube would cease to exist. Some products would never even get off the ground without some level of advertising.
What constitutes advertising vs marketing?
Does product placement count as advertising or marketing?
Does opening up a pop shop count as advertising or marketing?
So much to this, ultimately we do need to regulate advertisements. But I am not sure we can survive without them.
Minimum viable product used to mean, "What do we build that hooks a customer immediately?". It is about getting them engaged and learning from their engagement to then build features onto the MVP.