I like that you linked a journal article, thanks! And SMBC is just great, I'm constantly surprised that the creator started out with a literature degree, and ended up writing such relatable jokes for the academic community.
Entropy maximization sounds about just as appealing as an answer as 42.
No worries, though I would be interested to hear your thoughts on my position...do you see yourself ever "embracing nihilism" as another commenter put it, and using it as a source of encouragement rather than depression?
Hum, I think I do interpret it in a positive way most of the time, though there are other times, esp when I see otherwise fine people struggling to get this badge or that validation(plus comparing it to other people's), and beating themselves over it. Its less me having difficulties embracing nihilism but more wishing that it was a more accessible and talked about idea, so that you wouldn't see these amazing people killing themselves over a failed exam and falling into depression comparing themselves to others who seemingly have 'made something of their life', good for them. It's like the race has become the existing reality that we forget it's just that. I was inspired to write the article just after this conversation with a friend, who is an insanely talented coder, who has decided that since he was already 25, it was too late for him to 'accomplish' anything, and he was thereby a 'loser'. I find my brother in a similar situation of angst for not 'accomplishing' something (he's 22). Countless otehr very close friends echoing similar sentiments (maybe it's a 20's thing?). I understand wanting to discover cool stuff, getting closer to the absolute truth, but I don't understand beating yourself up because you did not meet a randomly assigned deadline, and assuming that some-one is a loser by default unless they can prove otherwise (Remonds me of how religion works, you are a sinner now do these things and give us all this money). That's what takes me down in the end.
Fully agreed there. It's easy to get caught up in the rat race when everyone around you is doing the same, and it can make you feel crazy to be the only one saying "guys, what are we actually doing all this for?" But ultimately, you can't beat yourself up over others beating themselves up.
Another way to think of it is: I don't like Donald Trump. I think what he does is wrong and bad, and it saddens and angers me if I let it. But, if I hold true to my beliefs, then he's just another part of the universe playing itself out, which will continue inexorably regardless of how I feel about it, so there's no sense in getting mad about it.
I assume we are so used to living without meaning, that to simulate a world where there was inherent meaning seems a hyperbole. Yet if I could attempt to name it, perhaps it would be a reality with defined endpoints, and where we were not unwilling, clueless participants.
I swear there was no pot involved whatsoever, though if there had been, I'm certain you'd have been spared of the annoyance of yet another 'Why am I here/Everything is meaningless' piece.
I'm not saying writing this kind of piece is bad. I want to read them, and they are a good reminder that sometimes we get caught up in our little rituals and take it way too seriously.
The fact that I was annoyed was exactly the point. I have my own days where I feel like all I am doing is meaningless, and in those days reading a post like this actually inspires me because I know I'm not alone in this feeling.
Maybe I didn't express myself correctly on the previous comment, but in no way telling you to shut up. Just saying that today you are the one feeling like this. Tomorrow, it will be me.
Thanks, I started them at some point, but had too much at hand to really get into them. I basically wrote the article in under 15 minutes in a mildly depressive/ruminative state. Apart from the 'Gah, Get over it!', I now have all these awesome book suggestions to indulge my existential crisis in.
Haha, I know the feeling well. So much to do. Hard to really get through one thing before finding an awesome next story or idea.
I don't think I've personally ever "gotten over" existential angst. I don't think I've ever tried because it's been with me for a while and I somehow came about experiencing it without hitting a deep depression. It's just there. Could have been the sets of fantasy books I read as a child/teenager allowing me to step outside myself mentally, or maybe it's a quirk of my upbringing. I was able to, and still am able to, think about suicide, the meaning of life, and how pointless it all is, while maintaining a relatively normal life.
I often explain to friends and/or family about how my logical/conscious self defaults to existential nihilism and they either go, "Uhhh, ok..." or say, "That's impossible. You care. You can't act the way you do and not care."
They're confused that I chose to live, I guess. So many people bias themselves towards a positive answer of the question: Does life have a meaning?
Many say, "Of course it does. If you really thought otherwise you wouldn't be alive."
For them it's:
"Life has meaning... so I must live"
"Life has no meaning... so I must die"
I think there's a funny middle:
"Life has no meaning... I... Well, I've got no idea, but I'm sure as hell not going to make a choice with no idea... I guess I'll see how it goes."
That was a point I wanted to dwell upon. Awareness while committing the rituals indeed changes the game but that would be incomplete without including free will and the concept of consciousness (giving rise to awareness) in general. But then going into successively deeper arguments endangers the article ever seeing the light of day.
You ever looked into the philosophy of non-dual Shaiva Tantra? Well, actually, just about any non-dual philosophies...
Here, consciousness and awareness is not a concept, but the first principle of the universe -- from which the _concept_ of consciousness reflects upon the first principle (without actually being the first principle). It's a key insight that breaks out the nihilism.
-- By "consciousness", I am speaking of awareness, not the constructed identity that most people calls "consciousness".
Sometimes it can be fun/stimulating to consider the nature of existence, but if it isn't taking you to that place, why do it? I half remember a story about a famous mathematician who drove himself mad trying to solve a problem regarding infinities, to me this is a great example of the difference between intellect and wisdom. If you're driven to understand something, I'd suggest that tells you something that's interesting in its own right, so to turn it back on you, why do you want to know?
Thanks for the links! I guess I'd like to know because without it, there's not much else I can do except wake up/eat/take s shit/go back to sleep. We are even able to have this conversation because someone somewhere wanted to go deeper and know more. About mathematicians, as a physicist, I'm no better myself and don't see why the possibility of going crazy should stop you from going after a problem you think you just need to know and are uniquely equipped to find the answer to, especially if you happen to be a famous(so probably a very talented) mathematician.
You're welcome. :-) Thank you for your answer, I think I understand your reasoning a little better.
With the example of the mathematician, you can read it a number of different ways, but one of the things I took from it was the difference between a healthy curiosity and an unhealthy curiosity. It sounds to me that you have a healthy curiosity, and enjoy the mental stimulation of exploring the big questions. As long as it remains something you enjoy and you're still open to enjoying other things then you can't really go wrong. If you'd like to find kindred spirits that also enjoy thinking about the big questions, you can find plenty in the world of philosophy. I can recommend The School of Life as an enjoyable way to explore philosophy. As some examples, here are a couple of my favourites from TSoL:
Learning can be done for your own enjoyment, but what I would suggest is the mindset that many of us used to get us through school isn't likely to help with that. I think this video puts it well:
Thanks! Loved the songs you had linked, esp the drums. Deschooling sounds very close to what I assume will be required to cope and thrive with nihilism. We are given some very shallow arguments to 'keep going' mainly centering around, 'You need to be successful/find a succesful partner/Be the next einstein'.You only need to go a couple of steps deeper, to realise that these statements are hollow and incomplete. I'm not saying one needs to have a why to do anything at all, just that it needs to be understand that there is no answer to that why. Otherwise it is no different from religious dogma that crumbles at the slightest questioning. Thanks for the aweosme links, gonna check them out one by one!
Glad you liked the songs! Would be interested to hear what you thought of the other videos too (even if you didn't like them).
Whilst I can see that you're looking into nihilism, it's worth knowing that nihilism isn't the only alternative to conventional views and religious dogma. To start this exploration, let's look at reincarnation. My favourite way to look at this is... If you eat an apple, has that apple been reincarnated as a human?
There is no point, no "for" reason. Only a "because" reason. Because you were given time. You are here because you were given time. Don't look for a point. Look for uses for time.
I like the concept that I have been given 'time' to act as I please. But am I acting as I please, because for the most part I am reacting to an ensemble of random events.
The point is that I am an unwilling participant in an evolutionary unfolding of life that I could not even make sense of until Mr. Darwin figured it out. Isn't it absurd that you are a critical thinking being, thrown onto a random planet with a certain set of initial conditions and limited knowledge collected by a few generations before you? And being aware of this, we go around like it's no big deal, buy our starbucks coffee and go on to complain about the tax rates and suicidal muslims.
The planet isn't random, it is one that can sustain life in our form. That we don't know everything about our existence, that we have to piece it together as best we can, and share our findings with the next generation, is all very exciting and amazing and awesome to me. I guess I am just the type of person who loves open world games :)
Also, it makes me get less upset when I see shitty things in the world - the fact that life that is just evolving to survive can get our shit together as well as humanity has, is frankly pretty amazing and impressive.
I agree with you and you are right, the world games are amazing and fun, but how many of us are aware that these are just games? And what happens when one ties their human worth to 'winning' these said games in succession (cause obv one is never enough). I wish we could just take this time for what it is, a gift of time, as a commentor pointed out. I guess I've just been running into too many people desperately running to 'get ahead', 'prove themselves', 'gain respect and admiration', that they become blind to the fragile and fleeting nature of it all.
There is nothing inherent in our existence that makes us need to do those things (tie your human worth to 'winning', 'getting ahead', or 'proving yourself', etc), and the best part is that whether you define yourself by those things or not is completely up to you. You don't need to change anyone else in order to not do those things yourself; when you say 'I wish we could just take this time for what it is, a gift of time,' you can totally do that! There is nothing stopping you - you don't need to convince anyone else of that in order to live it yourself.
You lament that you run into so many people who care about those things, and they are blind to the fragile and fleeting nature of it all, but I am unsure why that is such a horrible thing. Everyone is going to choose their own meaning for their lives, and sure, some will choose things that I don't understand and I don't think are important. But that is their life, and them choosing to care about those things doesn't change your life. You are not bound by their preferences.
In fact, I think it is great that all different people have such varied opinions on what is important. I get to observe them all, and see what life would be like under various scenarios. The human existence is so amazing because we all get to lead our own separate little 'experiments' in how we should live our lives (what we should do, what we should care about), and then we can share with each other what we have learned while trying these things. Some of the experiments will be utter failures, and some will be successes. We can learn from them all.
Thanks for the suggestion, will check it out. I have been looking for a different answer than the usual 'yeah life is meaningless, which is why you make the most of it'. Hopefully something more nuanced and existential crisis relieving.
Is it? (real). Last time I checked, this article was right next to the "Are we living in a Computer Simulation", and it's not been written by random depressed people (like me) either.
Entropy maximization sounds about just as appealing as an answer as 42.